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Automotive News & Views Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?
3958 messages, Last post on Oct 02, 2009 at 4:52 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: hpmctorque (Sep 09, 2008 5:41 pm) GM also needs to learn how to build more durable cars. My 92 Accord, and 03 Accord with a combined 200,000 miles have cost me less in repairs over 17 years, than my father's 01 Chevy Malibu with 50,000 miles over just 9 years. I also drive my cars much harder than he does. Who, in their right mind, buys one of these things? He didn't know better at the time. Now he does. |
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With so much bad news circling around GM, some haven't given up hope for federal help. CNN Money notes that Andrew Parmentier, an analyst at Friedman, Billings, and Ramsey, wrote in a note to investors on Friday, "If a major automaker fails and enters into liquidation, we expect Congress to use bridge funding as leverage in 2009 to actually implement restructuring proposals." Without federal help, it seems, few can imagine GM surviving. While the bailout debate goes on, automakers are trying to sell cars as fast as possible with deep discounts. Looks like November might come in at -27% sales for the industry, slightly better than October. The Fat Lady has already warmed up.... Regards, OW |
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Nov 24, 2008 5:57 pm) That's a good retention of value for 1.5 years and 13,000 miles. Not when new ones were back up in the high $30k range. I don't mind losing a couple grand after a year or so on a PU truck. I have bought new and sold higher more than I have lost money. If you buy right and take the vehicle to a good market you can make money. Two of the GM trucks I bought in Seattle and sold in Alaska at a profit after about a year driving them. I don't like losing money. That is why I rarely will buy a car. Cars are a big loss out the gate. You also have to take into consideration they only built 200 hybrid PU trucks for the CA market. Even then it was not a slam dunk sale. I advertised on Craigslist for nearly 6 months. Don't get me wrong. I was glad to sell at $23k. Just the horrible taxes and license in CA I had to absorb. That was a first for me. All my vehicles since 1970 were bought and licensed in Alaska. NO TAX and $30 per year license. I am having a real problem with the horrible taxes in this state of thug politicians. No state in the UNION wastes more tax money than CA.
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 24, 2008 8:26 pm) Now back to the regularly scheduled program.  November sales predictions are out: Gas Prices and Heavy Incentives Keep Car Sales From Sinking Below October's Depths
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 24, 2008 8:32 pm) A friend that was at the trial for Ted in DC told me it was a joke. That jury would have convicted Mother Teresa. And my friend is a dyed in the wool Democrat. Her dad was secretary of labor under Sheffield. She was there with a friend that was a witness for Ted Stevens. I guess Begich won so maybe they will call a mistrial and let Ted live out his years in peace. Another tidbit. Latest poll says most people consider the Internet the Best source of news. A Zogby Poll, commissioned by IFC, found 37.6% of those asked consider the Internets the most reliable source of news. 20.3% consider national TV news most reliable and 16% say radio is the most reliable source. Also revealed: • 39.3% of those surveyed trust FOX News most for the issues they consider most important, followed by CNN with 16% and MSNBC with 15%. • 72.6% believe the news they read and see is biased. • 88.7% Republican and 57.5% Democrat respondents describe the news media as biased.
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 24, 2008 5:28 pm) Bought a 2005 GMC hybrid PU in June of 2005 when the family discounts were offered. This truck had lots of nice stuff. MSRP was $36k. I got it after a real haggle for $26k plus TTL. One and a half years later I decided I wanted an SUV and drove the 2007 Denali Yukon. I cannot remember the exact figures. It was over $40k. My PU was perfect and I had added an aluminum roll-top over he bed for $1300. This was the same dealer I bought the truck from. It had 13k highway miles and he offered me $16k in trade. I stood up and told him that was an insult to my intelligence and walked out. I listed it on Craigslist and a fellow from LA came down and gave me $23k cash for the truck. That kind of loss on a PU truck is horrible, and the worst I have ever had. The truck was not as solid as my 1998 Suburban. I did like the Stereo and climate control. That will probably be my last GM vehicle." Let me understand your predicament: You were insulted when they offered you 16K in trade for your obsolete truck. Yet you weren't insulted when you practically "stole" it for 26k with the family pricing and all those discounts and then suckered an LA city slicker into paying 23k for it. A $1300.00 chrome roll bar should increase the trade value another 8k I would guess. Oh, and let's not forget the "highway miles". Just curious, how much better was the gas mileage over the conventional gas truck?
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 24, 2008 8:57 pm) Just heard some of a rerun of Obama's press conference today. Sure sounds like he wants to give Detroit some money, just as soon as Detroit can come up with a justification for needing it. |
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Replying to: dave8697 (Nov 24, 2008 3:15 pm) So what's your point with Japan? Are you trying to imply something here?
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| I would favor a loan, not a handout. I feel for the auto workers and have nothing but disdain for the executives of the big three. The writing has been on the wall for decades, not years, decades. I would have to have lots of preconditions before a loan was granted. What is their plan, repayment schedules, etc. | |
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has some pretty good ideas, after you get past the part where he seems to be weeping in his soup for all the unfairnesses (is that a word?!  ) the domestics have had to suffer since WWII. http://www.autoweek.com/article/20081124/FREE/811249987 It's when he invokes the domestics' leadership on E85 that I call foul, but he goes on to promote some new ideas I haven't heard yet that might be a good alternative to a bankruptcy filing. Among them: First, I would invest part of the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) money in the automakers' captive finance companies at competitive rates securitized by the finance or lease paper. This will dramatically reduce incentive costs for the Detroit Three. It also will benefit consumers who are finding it difficult to get financing, even with good credit scores. Second, I would enable the Detroit makers to draw against the $25 billion immediately to cover all investments they have made to date in green technology. That includes hybrid development, plug-in hybrids, EcoBoost, fuel cells and E85. This will keep them going until the next stage. Third, take $250 billion of the TARP money that the current administration will not spend and invest it in the new Industrial Bank of America. This bank will have the mandate to rebuild our manufacturing base, including our auto industry, with the progressive application of green technology. It also will rebuild our power grid with solar, wind and wave technology; it has to be renewable. I especially like the first and third points: a major financing base to promote development of alt power technology, as well as provide reliable, widely available credit for the industry and customers alike (this last is particularly crucial for GM now that it has lost control of GMAC). And the second point makes pulling the already approved $25 billion forward to repay them for investments they have already made seem almost sensible. I would imagine GM's cumulative investment in the Volt is substantial by this point. And Chrysler's in electric cars? And Ford with its own hybrids and EcoBoost? After the three main points the author goes off on a flight of fancy about how he would manage the restructuring of healthcare in America - yes that one is mostly pie in the sky. Fixing healthcare for the domestics and EVERYONE aint gonna be as easy as all that. But then he writes this: Look at selling off certain brands, such as Volvo and Saab. Close Hummer. Buick is a highly successful brand in China, so try to get investment from China in that brand. Develop specific consumer missions for all of the brands; this will help sales in brand-conscious areas such as California And maybe there could be a couple more brands gone between GM and Ford... He makes an emotional appeal for supporting and rejuvenating the manufacturing sector in America, starting with the carmakers. Ultimately, one of the things one must decide in this whole bailout thing is how much one values domestic manufacturing in general, and whether it is worth spending a TON of money trying to save it. But will a cash infusion save it? Global market forces with regard to labor costs dictate that the domestics will continue migrating all their production to Mexico and other low-cost Central American locales, don't they? I think it is inevitable unless they can somehow eliminate the UAW from existence entirely. |
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