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Automotive News & Views Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?
3958 messages, Last post on Oct 02, 2009 at 4:52 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: rogeliov (Nov 23, 2008 11:59 pm) As a former owner of a Cressida and current owner of a Lexus - I have to disagree - My Cressida, though reliable in general (Air Conditioning was problematic) was noisy, rattly, and reminded me a lot of a Ford Fairmont in the way it drove. In fact, it was no better than the Fairmont my wife drove at the same time. The Toyota was a bit more dependable, but certainly lacked any more refinement. Both had inline 6 cylinder engines and RWD. Both had a host of rattles and squeaks, and both drove rather erratically. The Ford had a better Air Conditioner, which never needed service, while the Toyota A/C gave me multiple issues and never was right. The Ford had other weaknesses, but both were amazingly comparable IMO. My Lexus (both of them) have been extraordinary vehicles in most every way. The seats could be more comfortable, but there are few squeaks and rattles, they are drop dead dependable, smooth beyond description, and intelligent in the extreme. About the only High Tech device on my Cressida was an equalizer on the Radio, which frankly did little to improve its performance.... IOW, the Lexus is a way better car than the already very good Toyota.....even today. As to the question of the topic; I feel a bailout of the Auto Industry in this country is nothing more or less than a bailout of the UAW - and I do not favor that. I think the only way for Ford & GM to survive is to go into Chapter 11, and dismiss the union and dealer contracts, and totally restructure the companies, in a much leaner and more efficient manner, pay the workers what Toyota and Honda and Subaru pay, and invite the workers back. But the legacy costs, the union contracts that require that a plant produce, or the workers be paid not to produce, and generally paying the "employee bank" to show up and play cards all day MUST go if the companies are going to survive. The build good cars already. They could afford to built just as good a car as Toyota does, IF they didn't have to roll in these extra expenses to each car, making them non-competitive. At least that's the way I see it. By the way, my bank has not needed, nor have we accepted any bailout funds from the government.
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From the Philadelphia newspaper: Car Pool to D.C.
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Replying to: lemko (Nov 24, 2008 12:09 pm) "The proper people are talking to the proper people, and things are getting put together," said Leuliette. "This really picked up momentum over the weekend." This makes it sound like they are spending time working on Style, rather than Substance. LOL - it also makes it sound that getting from 1 city to another is something that requires teams of people working many days to figure out for these guys.  I'm sure Wagoner and his subordinates are right now debating what vehicle to take, and what color; rather than trying to figure what divisions and models must go, and how to get their legacy and current costs down.
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 23, 2008 9:41 am) And IMO Mitt Romney is right on point here too: "a managed bankruptcy may be the only path to the fundamental restructuring the industry needs." If Congress gave automakers a quick bailout, Romney wrote "automakers will stay the course -- the suicidal course of declining market shares, insurmountable labor and retiree burdens, technology atrophy, product inferiority and never-ending job losses. Detroit needs a turnaround, not a check." As for the whole fuss being made about the execs flying in on corporate jets, I don't think it matters all that much. Yes, symbolism is important but in this case ACTION is a lot more important. The meat of the domestics' turnaround will come in reducing executive compensation by about 90%, finding some leaders for these companies that can actually do the job, and breaking these outrageous UAW contracts. If they keep a private jet or two, it is such a minor part of what is going on, I would ignore it personally. This made me chuckle though: On Friday, GM said it had already returned two of its seven leased jets and would get rid of two more. Ford Motor Co. also said it was considering slimming down its corporate jet fleet. THAT they will do, but when it comes to taking care of the issues I named above? That they won't do in any effective manner. 
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Replying to: lemko (Nov 24, 2008 12:09 pm) After they file for bankruptcy and have a good reorganization plan in place with low paid executives, maybe a loan would be appropriate. Iococca only took a buck a year till they were making money again.
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Replying to: kernick (Nov 24, 2008 12:43 pm) Ya THINK?????? Un-freakin'-believable! Now we must give them cash?? They need Rotp-Rooter on the brain if you ask me! So, again, I ask: You think this will be the last time they ask for cash even if they get it this time? Come on, Really?? Regards, OW
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 24, 2008 2:00 pm) If this isn't demanded from Congress or no deal, I will lead a march on Washington the likes Obama has not even thought could be possible! These guys need religion!! No more Mr. Nice Guy!!! Regards, OW |
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Replying to: nippononly (Nov 24, 2008 12:57 pm) |
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Replying to: circlew (Nov 24, 2008 2:03 pm) I might join you. I would like to see the Smithsonian before I die. Never been to DC or had any real desire except the museums. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 24, 2008 2:09 pm) May I respectfully recommend the Tomb of the Unknown Soldiers and the changing of the guard. I also recommend Lincoln Memorial. Union Terminal is interesting for people watching.
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