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Automotive News & Views Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?
3958 messages, Last post on Oct 02, 2009 at 4:52 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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pfft! I am squarely setting my sights on this little Italian/French squirtplug called the 2010 Pininfarina-Bollore B-Zero.  This car is an all-electric car with batteries built by Bollore of France. They have worked on them for 15 years. At the heart of any electric car, lies the battery. Bolloré is a highly diversified group of companies with a combined yearly turnover of 10 billion US dollars and 35,000 employees. For the past 30 years, the group has been the world’s leading producer of components for capacitors. Thanks to its acquired know-how in extruded polymers and the storage of electrical energy, Bolloré has been working for 15 years through its subsidiary, Batscap, to develop a solid-state lithium polymer battery. This battery is able to store, weight-for-weight, and it can be recharged in just a few hours. The battery does not require any maintenance and has a lifespan of around 200,000 km (125,000 miles). Another key benefit is its unmatched safety while in operation. Added to that, the B0 electric car does not emit any exhaust gases, nor any fine particles. The car’s LMP batteries thus help combat air pollution. The batteries of the B0 also contribute to reducing noise, another nuisance which affects people’s quality of life in urban environments. Supercapacitors: boosting acceleration and recycling power Supercapacitors are sophisticated energy storage components developed by the Bolloré Group. In an electric car, supercapacitors draw and store energy generated while the car is braking and feed it back into the system when the car moves off again. The result is greater acceleration, increased range and a longer lifespan for the car’s battery. The electric cars powered by BatScap’s LMP batteries and supercapacitors have a range of over 250 km. They are fast (with a top speed of 130 km/h), pleasant to drive, safe, and long-lasting. Here's one that fires up my boilers here in sunny Arizona! Natural energy from solar panels Because it is 100% electric powered, the B0 does not generate any pollution. But the process of generating the electricity which the car uses must also, as far as possible, not have produced any atmospheric pollution. That is why the creators of the B0 have designed it to incorporate every possible solution designed to optimise the car’s energy efficiency and use of clean energy sources. For instance, the B0 electric car is fitted with supercapacitors, which enable it to store and recycle the energy that is generated while braking. Similarly, the car’s roof and part of its hood are covered with highperformance solar panels which help power some of its equipment. It goes without saying that a responsible environmental approach must be coherent throughout. Which is why all the materials used to build the car’s body, battery and interior trim have been carefully selected for their low environmental impact. All are recyclable or reusable. The Bolloré Group is also in the process of developing straight-forward panels of photovoltaic cells which might be installed by individuals or in public places to fully or partly recharge the B0 electric car’s batteries using solar energy. http://www.pininfarina.com/index/storiaModelli/B0.html The 2010 Pininfarina-Bollore B-Zero only takes 5 hours to re-charge! Pininfarina-Bollore are proposing to send the Los Angeles market some early B0's in 2009, along with two more U.S. market areas. Only 2,000 cars are even set to be imported in 2010, so the amount in 2009 will surely not be very many, either. I'd guess 200 cars to each of the 3 U.S. market areas, but realize that is just a guess. The rest of America wil get these truly smart automobiles in September of 2010. And a recent clarification occurred on the internet where it was confirmed that Bollore will not rent out the battery pack separately, while the owner bought the rest of the car. It will be sold as one package, which makes more sense to me. Early testing on the LeBlue cars(made by the same two companies in partnership)has been wonderful. The LeBlue's have gone 125,000 kilometres without any trouble and without any maintenance. Bollore is saying that the batteries will last 125,000 miles. Warranty and pricing are not yet announced(and believe me I've tried to find out both) but there have been internet rumours of pricing at around $27,000, converting over from the Euro in one of Pininfarina-Bollore's press releases from the fall of '08. This price should be knocked down by $7,500 with the Barack Obama rebate, which he has promised for cars built like this to serve the auto-buying public like this. It's sort of a Green Ford for da masses.
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Replying to: dtownfb (Nov 24, 2008 9:59 am) They do that so that on popular models, or during extremely good economic times they can make the most profit. But on the other end the high MSRP can be a turnoff for the reasons you mentioned, or the number just looks daunting. Who wants to buy an Impala with a $23K+ options sticker, when a 2 year old one is listed for $10K. GM wanted to stick with 1 price - the MSRP on Saturn; and they blew this by trying to price in too much profit. The Saturns looked expensive compared to the discounted prices on other brands. Now they offer rebates and special financing on Saturns. I think GM should have kept MSRP, but took the rebates off the MSRP and sold it for that. They would have had a significant MSRP advantage this way for their advertising to take advantage of.
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 24, 2008 8:47 am) Knew people who made a killing when gold was first out of the bag decades ago and hit a ceiling. Chatter said gold should hit 600-650 for a bottom but believed the 714 it recently hit was a new bottom. No safe deposit vault - no protection no insurance - guess the reason for a safe at home by those buying metals. Just surprised by the amount of activity at that store. And it is true the old buy/sell, but that is how the broker lives. |
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Replying to: rogeliov (Nov 23, 2008 11:59 pm) As a former owner of a Cressida and current owner of a Lexus - I have to disagree - My Cressida, though reliable in general (Air Conditioning was problematic) was noisy, rattly, and reminded me a lot of a Ford Fairmont in the way it drove. In fact, it was no better than the Fairmont my wife drove at the same time. The Toyota was a bit more dependable, but certainly lacked any more refinement. Both had inline 6 cylinder engines and RWD. Both had a host of rattles and squeaks, and both drove rather erratically. The Ford had a better Air Conditioner, which never needed service, while the Toyota A/C gave me multiple issues and never was right. The Ford had other weaknesses, but both were amazingly comparable IMO. My Lexus (both of them) have been extraordinary vehicles in most every way. The seats could be more comfortable, but there are few squeaks and rattles, they are drop dead dependable, smooth beyond description, and intelligent in the extreme. About the only High Tech device on my Cressida was an equalizer on the Radio, which frankly did little to improve its performance.... IOW, the Lexus is a way better car than the already very good Toyota.....even today. As to the question of the topic; I feel a bailout of the Auto Industry in this country is nothing more or less than a bailout of the UAW - and I do not favor that. I think the only way for Ford & GM to survive is to go into Chapter 11, and dismiss the union and dealer contracts, and totally restructure the companies, in a much leaner and more efficient manner, pay the workers what Toyota and Honda and Subaru pay, and invite the workers back. But the legacy costs, the union contracts that require that a plant produce, or the workers be paid not to produce, and generally paying the "employee bank" to show up and play cards all day MUST go if the companies are going to survive. The build good cars already. They could afford to built just as good a car as Toyota does, IF they didn't have to roll in these extra expenses to each car, making them non-competitive. At least that's the way I see it. By the way, my bank has not needed, nor have we accepted any bailout funds from the government.
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From the Philadelphia newspaper: Car Pool to D.C.
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Replying to: lemko (Nov 24, 2008 12:09 pm) "The proper people are talking to the proper people, and things are getting put together," said Leuliette. "This really picked up momentum over the weekend." This makes it sound like they are spending time working on Style, rather than Substance. LOL - it also makes it sound that getting from 1 city to another is something that requires teams of people working many days to figure out for these guys.  I'm sure Wagoner and his subordinates are right now debating what vehicle to take, and what color; rather than trying to figure what divisions and models must go, and how to get their legacy and current costs down.
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 23, 2008 9:41 am) And IMO Mitt Romney is right on point here too: "a managed bankruptcy may be the only path to the fundamental restructuring the industry needs." If Congress gave automakers a quick bailout, Romney wrote "automakers will stay the course -- the suicidal course of declining market shares, insurmountable labor and retiree burdens, technology atrophy, product inferiority and never-ending job losses. Detroit needs a turnaround, not a check." As for the whole fuss being made about the execs flying in on corporate jets, I don't think it matters all that much. Yes, symbolism is important but in this case ACTION is a lot more important. The meat of the domestics' turnaround will come in reducing executive compensation by about 90%, finding some leaders for these companies that can actually do the job, and breaking these outrageous UAW contracts. If they keep a private jet or two, it is such a minor part of what is going on, I would ignore it personally. This made me chuckle though: On Friday, GM said it had already returned two of its seven leased jets and would get rid of two more. Ford Motor Co. also said it was considering slimming down its corporate jet fleet. THAT they will do, but when it comes to taking care of the issues I named above? That they won't do in any effective manner. 
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Replying to: lemko (Nov 24, 2008 12:09 pm) After they file for bankruptcy and have a good reorganization plan in place with low paid executives, maybe a loan would be appropriate. Iococca only took a buck a year till they were making money again.
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Replying to: kernick (Nov 24, 2008 12:43 pm) Ya THINK?????? Un-freakin'-believable! Now we must give them cash?? They need Rotp-Rooter on the brain if you ask me! So, again, I ask: You think this will be the last time they ask for cash even if they get it this time? Come on, Really?? Regards, OW
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 24, 2008 2:00 pm) If this isn't demanded from Congress or no deal, I will lead a march on Washington the likes Obama has not even thought could be possible! These guys need religion!! No more Mr. Nice Guy!!! Regards, OW |
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