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Automotive News & Views Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?
3958 messages, Last post on Oct 02, 2009 at 4:52 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: rangerover2 (Nov 22, 2008 6:58 pm) If I was saying that, certainly I would be wrong. So you need to read my post again - what I said was "parts of the US economy cannot compete". US does very well where it is competitive. The Japanese model has its own set of problems, and therefore Japan does not have a Google or Microsoft (areas where US is the most competitive country in the world). Also US consistently takes the top spot in coming up with new technologies and business models, and is a magnet for top talent from all over the world - something other countries have failed to do (perhaps due to their relatively "closed" nature). But you seem to believe that the US should be number one in all respects. Which is not possible. Each country chooses a particular way to compete, and depending on what strategy it chooses, it succeeds in some areas, and fails in others. You don't hear the successful US manufacturers (some of them listed in another post - to that list I would also add names like Intel and Coca Cola) complain about the "uneven playing field" since they know that they can utilize that field to their benefit. My point was, US cannot be No. 1 across the board simply because other countries have strengths which they have found out after they were forced to compete in the open market (in many cases, by the US). That resulted in a lot of initial pain at their end (Japan has lost all its textile, toy, light engineering, and agricultural industry in the last twenty years; Indian local soft drink industry has been run over by Coke and Pepsi), but now they cannot understand why US would insist on changing the rules of the game when such failure arrives at their shores. PS : Toyota is having bigger layoffs in Japan - and not the US. Certainly they are not trying to give the local Japanese any preferential treatment..... |
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We have been ripped off by overpaid line works which gave the excuse for extremely overpaid managers and executives. This while providing antique overpriced cars. I say it would be the best thing for the US and the world to let these thieves slink into the night. In addition, anyone who has tried to purchase a Luxury/Performance car recently knows that the dealers are ripping off the consumers more than they ever have. They pat themselves on the back for providing the least amount of community support possible with the profits they have TAKEN from the community. Mostly, it's playing Golf and having coctail parties for themselves. KBB, Edmunds, no longer matter, because they are fair to the consumer. Auto dealers can't have that, so they have made up this "call around" system. What thieves! I say let them get something more useful then they have provided us. A big refrigerator box for severance! |
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 23, 2008 12:41 pm) I was wondering the same thing about a Camry and an ES.
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Nov 23, 2008 1:22 pm) All the GM brands I can sort of understand. They purchased some good brands as the industry consolidated. But then they wound up homogenizing them. Honda/Acura, VW/Porsche, Nissan/Infiniti - every time I see one of the premium brands, I have to wonder if there's really any special engineering or higher quality components to justify the premium cost or is it all just window dressing. Lattes in the service department don't excite me, although a loaner is nice. And there underlies the argument for letting GM reorganize so they can dump brands and dealers instead of financing more of the same on taxpayer dollars.
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 23, 2008 1:56 pm) It maybe changing with some of GM's latest offerings, but I think the German and Asian makes have done a better job of differentiating the product between premium and nonpremium brands. Drive a G35 and you now it's not a run of the mill Nissan. They may both have the corporate 3.5v6, but they tune them specifically for each line they are used in. In my experience, when I'm in a VW it feels like an Audi. Where as, when I've been in a Buick it feels like a Chevy. Meaning that many of the switch gear and interior materials in the VW, wouldn't look out of place in a an Audi. The Buick's I've been in had switch gear that felt and looked to cheap to even be in a Cavalier. That's been the problem. Granted, GM's latest offerings have much, much better interior design and materials. |
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 23, 2008 1:56 pm) I believe there are. We have a 2004 Buick Ranier, and it is MUCH better, quieter and more luxurious than the Chevy or GMC. Buick adds it's "Quiet Tuning", which adds more insulation and has (extra???) laminated glass to give it a much quieter ride. Also, it is AWD as opposed to push button 4WD. What I resent is how the Foreign companies seem to get a free pass in doing this, yet the Big 3 are called to task for it. Ironically, I believe had Daimler Chrysler engaged in more of this, it would've been a much leaner company and there would be no reason for the Germans to dump Chrysler. Instead, they chose to treat Chrysler as a red headded stepchild, and it cost them large sums of money (not enough in my mind). Unfortunately, it will probably cost Chrysler it's life.
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Nov 23, 2008 5:42 pm) Continuing in this vein, this commentator at the Washington Post says that the Big 3's problem is that can't "gain access quickly to cutting-edge components developed throughout the group -- and find new ways to integrate them into new product." And then he says that Lexus stuff trickles down to the Camry. But did Lexus stuff migrate down or did Toyota just add extra Dynamat and heavier glass to the Lexus and get a free pass for doing so? Now CITI gets bailed out - why not Detroit? |
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Now the TV Networks are saying they need to be bailed out. They have been losing advertising over the last two decades. Now as Automakers cut back on Advertising it will be devastating to them as well. I cannot think of a better thing to happen in this country than for TV stations to go broke and quit broadcasting. There is NOTHING on TV worth the electricity to watch it. 2009 may be a banner year yet. Get rid of junky automakers and network TV. http://www.variety.com/VR1117996347.html
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 23, 2008 7:34 pm) Because I sold my GM at $27 and I bought Citi Group when I thought it had bottomed out. I was going to buy more at under $4. Probably too late. There is a BIG difference between keeping the money sound and subsidizing automakers that are not going to be profitable. Giving a loan is bad enough. We are talking a gift to GM. That is anti business. Why not every other automaker building cars in the USA. If we subsidize GM we should subsidize Toyota as well. They are both multi national corporations. How do we know that GM has not siphoned off billions here to build up their China operations? Then tell the public we are hurting and it is all because we were stupid and promised our UAW employees the moon. |
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From the looks of this photo essay, it looks as though Detroit is just about to become one big park. Best to bulldoze all the buildings and get a grant from the National Park Service. Give it back to the pigeons and coyotes. Detroit is far greener than most major cities, as seen in the runaway vines swarming old mansions in Brush Park, trees sprouting from the rooftops of skyscrapers, tallgrass fields encircling the lone house still standing on a residential block, and abandoned homes swallowed by shrubs thriving unchecked. Whole neighorhood blocks cleared of houses by arson and bulldozers have reverted to urban prairies, visible in satellite photos as unusually large green patches in the middle of the inner city. Sidewalks vanish beneath creeping grasses, while aluminum fences between homes become entwined with the branches of dozens of saplings growing as high as the droopy utility wires. Alleys in parts of the city start resembling hiking trails as growth from the yards on both sides narrows their width. All around town, even smaller empty lots become thick, grassy fields, because the City doesn’t often mow in easements and right-of-way areas, allowing weeds to grow 3 feet high. Throughout Detroit, as half the population fled in the last half-century outward towards the suburbs and later towards more rural areas, the city itself has, ironically, become more rural, with wild animals and lush green plants coexisting with an industrial, modern metropolis. http://www.detroitblog.org/?p=287
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