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Automotive News & Views Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?
3958 messages, Last post on Oct 02, 2009 at 4:52 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: ponderpoint (Nov 21, 2008 6:05 pm) |
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Replying to: fintail (Nov 21, 2008 7:02 pm) Now they did fly the Concorde and the top people did fly First Class when available but it was mostly Business Class.
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Replying to: ponderpoint (Nov 21, 2008 2:20 pm) Add to that the recent legislation passed in CA that took away some kind of EV incentive. I know the Tesla people were not happy at all. I really believe the Feds and states like CA are only giving lip service to alternatives. Unless there is some serious lobby money in it for Congress. Such as the ethanol boondoggle we are losing billions on. In the end it will probably be the same kind mess in the Big 3 bailout. I consider the Tesla as just about worthless with its 6000 AA batteries to fail. The Volt is not a whole lot better from where I see it. The are fat cat toys, nothing more. |
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| The Big 3 jets in themselves would not break the company. It is the over all mentality of waste that is killing them. If nothing else bankruptcy would have some justice in the fact that these fat cat executives would lose what ever money they have in company stock. I don't think it is out of the realm of a bailout to set executive pay levels. We are expecting the UAW to match the competition here in the USA. Why not the executives. If Toyota is paying less than a $ million per year for a CEO. That should be part of any bailout. That includes the banks and brokerages we are funding or saving. Or tax bonus money at 90% like in the good old days. | |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 22, 2008 12:20 am) A friend of mine's dad used to fly a corporate jet for Midwest Steel in northwest Indiana in the late 80's. I don't know if they are still in business. I'd guess like most of the steel mills running in that area now, most have gone BK and are operating under different management. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 22, 2008 12:20 am) Aditya Mittal has been flying around in a private jet, and it sounds like the jet has been around for a decade. (link). Midwest Steel is still around (assuming it's the same outfit?). They made the steel used to rebuild the GM factory that was flattened by a tornado in OK and made the steel for the Toyota factory in San Antonio. One of my relations works for Nucor Steel. "In August 2006, the company did purchase a corporate jet for use by senior management. In a letter to all employees from the CEO, Dan DiMicco explained that the frequent rentals of charter jets made a corporate jet purchase a cost-effective measure." (Wiki) Nucor has its roots in Oldsmobile btw. I can just see Wagoner sitting in first class and having some Vega or Cimarron owner recognize him and start slugging away, especially after last week's performance.  Obama gave a short radio talk this morning and mentioned fuel-efficient cars, but nothing about a bailout. link title
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 22, 2008 8:43 am) I think Obama knows that letting the Big 3 die is the best way to start fresh with a new era of EVs and fuel efficient cars. The Big 3 cannot build high mileage inexpensive cars for the masses with their corporate bloat. They can only survive if the buying public goes back to buying Tahoes and Explorers. I don't see that happening anytime soon. I would look to the Chinese to own most of Michigan before too long. Minnesota is close by and grows the best wild rice. It's a natural. 
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Blame Steve, one of the hosts, for this post. He linked this discussion in a Hummer post. Love links to positions that show the post is more than an emotional response. Think the problem is endemic to a consumerist society driven by greed, no regulations please-I got mine go get yours, unless something happens and need to cry like a stuck pig for government programs to help me - that statement is an emotional response to red individuals who talk tough until it hurts them specifically. Yes, American ceos seem grossly overpaid compared to known payments of Japanese executives - been so for a long time. Don't pay to enrich pro athletes either (small local teams popping up all over the area-can't get into the majors or just love to play, hope it is the latter). Saw the evening news and the new honda plant in IN making civics, earn less then union wages and saw mostly young faces and what looked like Japanese managers mixed in the crowd watching the Honda Executive give his speech. I have worked with an older man who was happy to work because he just came from WV earning fifty cents an hour-1979 if I remember correctly. Worked a summer in a seamless tube mill and spent some time on the PA Turnpike decades ago(this is for steve's comment). Instead of a rational approach to growth, Levittown consumed farmland to make money by building houses of sticks and houses are still being built with sticks and plywood if it is available.. Loans, why not. Bankruptcy-is that to break more unions. Ronald was a union hater possibly because of a preceived injustice to him. So he broke the air traffic controllers and the few overworked controllers are still sending out the alarm. A. Jackson, an anti-Hamiltonian, broke the first BUS and Biddle. How would you like to bring back red dog banking. Recessions and worse until the final straw when regulations protected us (under FDR) until this latest round of deregulation and money grabbing. Worked in sales awhile back, the owner was once an airplane mechanic until...cheaper bodies could be found who couldn't read. An now an amusing incident, was coming out of a parts store and noticed a guy wiring under the hood and was suprised a new truck had a wiring issue. He had wired up his own trailer hitch and had a problem. So he said he did what he does at work-put in a piece of heavy copper wire and see what melts then wire around it. His occupation-aircraft mechanic, says those old planes have been worked on so much blueprints are useless. The personal auto is the result of corporate and government cooperation? destroying mass transit decades ago. Even Jay Leno made a comment of the danger of lost technology. Why do think the Chinese demanded the technology to build vehicles. I have done several industrial and technical jobs before that BS diploma. Things would not work without the passing down of specific information from one person to the next about that job, product, method. Give them the loan - where are the trillions the current ins have given away or are you still listening to those fear mongerers on the radio misdirecting your emotions. |
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Some might say that it is immoral to take money from the tax payer to give to a failed enterprise. This means any failed enterprise, AIG to GM. Some might say that Socialism punishes: 1. Hard Work 2. Thrift 3. Entrepreneurship Is this the Road To Serfdom and do we really want to proceed down this road? Should the government have bailed out the buggy whip manufacturers at the turn of the last century? Some might say let Creative Destruction take place and the economic resources will be reallocated to their most efficent use by the millions of participants in the market. Was it freedom or Socialism that provided the US with the highest standard of living in the history of human civilization?
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