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Automotive News & Views Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?
3958 messages, Last post on Oct 02, 2009 at 4:52 PM
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Replying to: dodgen (Nov 20, 2008 5:26 pm) Locked up in politics as usual. Bush, like him or not, seemed to offer a reasonable compromise in letting the Detroit 3 tap their currrent $25B in environmental and fuel efficiency subsidy to cover their current liquidity problems. Some in both parties agreed, but then the political machines got into gear. The Dems didn't want to go for it because they need to feed their left and it's push for environment, as well as their loathing of Bush. The Republicans didn't buy in because of their far right beliefs that Adam Smith still defines Capitalism. Each side wants to one up the other. Obama may truly be a centrist hoping to unite government, but he faces a steep uphill battle. Each party seems aligned with their political interests and special interest lobby money. The middle class only counts at election time, otherwise they don't provide the big cash payouts that lobbyists can. We need more politcal parties and some competition in politics. I'm not sure that either party stands for middle class America and its desires any more. Unfortunately, Washington may be more broken than Detroit!
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Replying to: berri (Nov 20, 2008 6:49 pm) 
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Replying to: pf_flyer (Nov 20, 2008 5:52 am) That was the point of a prior post I made. If the bailout does occur it cannot just void the three legal contract that the UAW has in place. Unless the UAW agrees to reopen the negotiations the D3 are stuck with those contracts....unless they go BK. If I was Gettlefinger I wouldn't budge. I'd want part of that $25 Billion for myself and my members. Otherwise nyet. |
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Replying to: rangerover2 (Nov 20, 2008 5:03 pm) The Big 3 have problems but they did not get into this state by themselves. The U.S. government with their Free Trade policies and inept healthcare policies does not help. Anyone can setup shop with no import penalities, no legacy costs and Government sponsorship (Japanes & U.S. State governments looking for an import plant). Absolutely, absolutely wrong. The detroiters got into the cost, health benefit, unbalanced product portfolion all by themselves. There are hundreds of thousands of other business that have been in existence since the 50's when the irrevocable slide began in Detroit. Many of these business like MS and Intel and Boeing and GE and others just got it right and didn't sell out to the union in order to keep the peace. Look at CAT. No the detoiters did it to themselves because they weren't willing to make tough decisons. Everyone else in the US was operating under the same system of rules and regs as the vehicles makers. It's just that the detroiters screwed themselves.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 20, 2008 8:26 pm) |
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Replying to: joel0622 (Nov 20, 2008 8:54 am) "F150 Taurus Ranger Escort E150 Explorer" |
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Looking into the idea of a "pre-pack" bankruptcy procedure? Is this along the line of my thought of a non-bankruptcy bankruptcy? http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aRfqFMhlj5lk&refer=worldwide- We keep trying to create new "instruments" to deal with things, don't we? |
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Replying to: gmctruck (Nov 20, 2008 9:53 am) UAW kind of in a big poker game. I wonder how many of its members are really in touch with reality on this whole situation. Do majority support Gettlefinger? Would many of them sign a reverse "Card Check", if there was one, to eliminate UAW representation and take their chances with Big 3 high management to be fair and equitable as Honda and Toyota apparently are? Or, are UAW members so brainwashed by the union to not trust any company management whether Big 3 or any other company. But, of course, there still is the issue of GM having redundant brands, too many models, too many dealers, contractural agreements with dealers, etc that have to be solved. |
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They think that if after getting their $73 an hour, there is anything left over, mgmt can decide how to split it up. If it is a net loss, then mgmt eats it. They don't see how anything can ever effect this situation and therefore see no need to negotiate any changes. If GM goes belly up, they fall back on their US gov't guaranteed pensions. When mgmt sees 'a not worth saving business unit' popping it's ugly head, they can close a plant and shed just those workers. Then they develop a replacement product that is different and grow it from start outside the UAW grips. Mexico, Portugal, Brazil, etc. Salary GM workers are mad as hell about this. Their great labors are spent on a totally broken system. They are unprotected and can be eliminated at any time, yet they are expected to pull off miracles to somehow put a product into the market that can compete after a $26 an hour labor cost disadvantage. To have held onto 29% of the US car market in spite of that disadvantage is quite an accomplishment and shows how American workers can be the best in the world. Just think what they could do with a level playing field!! The month delay in a bailout is a bad move. To ask for a better plan means having to show how to compete with all their handicaps, including the $26 an hour extra labor expense and all the legacy pensions and health care. Most people still don't know that the UAW has always gotten 100% health care for the bridge years between their last work day and when they turn 65. The list of places that also give that benefit is also a list of BK entities, starting with the US Congress, and some NE municipalities.
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Replying to: dave8697 (Nov 21, 2008 9:36 am) GM market share is currently at 22%. |
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