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Automotive News & Views Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?
3958 messages, Last post on Oct 02, 2009 at 4:52 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: pf_flyer (Nov 20, 2008 9:30 am) To me it seems the CEOs and Gettlefinger are shooting themselves in the foot with their actions, arrogance and 1950s thinking (with the possible exception of Mulally). With Wagoner's comments / thoughts about resignation, acting as though he's playing the Neo character from "The Matrix" in the way he dodges any questions about having a plan in place for long-term profitability, GM may be done. He looks like a deer in headlights to me. And I don't think they made an impression by coming in with prepared statements that were obviously written by someone in marketing and sales. I mean, it's all right to have crib notes of a speech you prepared, and glance down every now and again to remember the fine points, but to not be able to look your audience in the eyes because you're too busy looking down at your speech doesn't exude readiness and knowledge of the subject matter at hand. They weren't even passionate while making those speeches; I mean, the professor was more passionate and he kind of looked like death warmed-over!! And where were the suppliers? These guys should have had some of their core and smaller suppliers there, or at least letters from them. And with what's been happening with the TARP, AIG, getting fooled by Paulson, their own stupidity and all the other mistakes Congress made just giving the banks money, they need to posture and beat on somebody and unfortunately it's these people. |
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Replying to: jpf (Nov 20, 2008 10:53 am) As for the UAW, I'm not in a position to really know whether their primary cost issue is salary, benefits or excessive work rules and restrictions. However, if the government is hitting the auto workers, it seems to me that they should be doing the same thing to the Wall Street and other financial people and their $700B bailout. Detroit's loan is puny compared to what the banks and financial service companies are getting, and I haven't seen any indication that the finance world is changing their ways either!
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Replying to: jpf (Nov 20, 2008 10:53 am) Mulally from Ford is OK, but Wagoner needs to go and then bring in someone with a viable business plan and the guts to make the necessary changes at GM to expedite it's recovery. It's long past time for Wagoner to retire.
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Replying to: gmctruck (Nov 20, 2008 12:02 pm) |
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Replying to: gmctruck (Nov 20, 2008 12:02 pm) |
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Take this quiz: 1) Do you think the Big 3 have too much manufacturing capacity for a market on pace to sell 10-12 million vehicles per year? YES NO 2) Do you think the Big 3 have a dealer network that is too large to support the sales of 5-6 million vehicles per year? YES NO If you answered either question with a "YES", then what do you propose should be done? If you answered both questions with a "NO", well, then, there isn't any chance that anything that is said, either here in this forum or in the media at large, is going to have any affect on your perspective. |
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Replying to: jpf (Nov 20, 2008 10:53 am) They're all not going to fail at once, so your theories flawed right there. If GM declares BK, that does not change the number of cars that people are going to buy. Ford and Chrysler would benefit by having more sales, along with the others. People who buy GM would probably go to Ford and Chrysler - buying doemstic type cars, rather than the imports. If the suppliers make parts for Ford, GM, and Chrysler, well then their business will not change. The only thing that changes is that the supplier makes more of parts F and C and none of GM. The rest of your story, you've probably picked up from the people who would benefit from the $25B, and thus is so biased and phoney, trying to get the gullible public to believe this sort of economic nonsense. If McDonald's closes today, this does not put the meat suppliers out of business, decrease jobs, and cause a Depression in farmland. Burger King, Wendies and such are going to see more business, hire more, and buy the beef that otherwise McD's would have. |
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Replying to: berri (Nov 20, 2008 11:51 am) Could you give some examples of that history? I don't see why if GM goes BK the bankruptcy courts couldn't sell off the assets quickly. The government can cut their own red-tape if they want. GM goes bankrupt and I'll be willing to bid on the Bowling Green plant tomorrow, and start the production lines up again on Mon. pumping out Corvettes. Also if you want to consider startup time and look at history, do some research on what a little motivation can do. The Russians moved tractor factories hundreds of miles during WWII with their lousy infrastructure, and had them up and running within days converting them to making T-34 tanks and cannons. It does not years or months to convert from making a GM mirror to making a Ford mirror especially since the tooling exists, and the suppliers are running at low capacity now. Detroit's loan is puny compared to what the banks and financial service companies are getting, and I haven't seen any indication that the finance world is changing their ways either! I'm only asking for $5M so why not throw that my way.  What's the difference right(?); we're already so far in debt as a nation. But seriously, are you ignoring the fact that Citi just layed off 52,000 more people in addition to 20,000 last month? Are you ignoring that some stock brokerage firms have closed? The $700B is not going to save many in the fianancial and insurance sectors.
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Replying to: kernick (Nov 20, 2008 12:45 pm)
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Replying to: berri (Nov 20, 2008 1:35 pm) Many may be old, but as Dave just posted, who worked for GM they are very modernized with robotics. The workers are only UAW while working for one of the Big3. If GM sells me, or I buy at auction an auto factory, I can hire who I want. You appear to assume that bankruptcy is inevitable and GM will not be able to pay back the loan. Why won't anyone loan them the money then, such that they're begging to the government? Let's look at the opinion here - http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Lame-ducks-lurch-toward-a/story.aspx?guid=- - %7BB42C8F84%2D5FF8%2D4F25%2DA0E2%2D8964F117878E%7D "But the bailout doesn't even remotely solve the long-term issues facing Detroit. Taxpayers and investors can still rightfully wonder what these companies are going to look like when the money runs out. Will they have achieved in a few months the turnaround their executives claim they have been pushing through for the past two years? Anyone willing to bet on that outcome is probably more prayerful than realistic." GM failure will have an economic impact on lost jobs, govt pension guarantees, etc. The Wall Street Journal thinks many others will pickup the business lost by Detroit. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122714059184542693.html?mod=mktw Please explain to me why Wall Street's AIG is more important than GM to the economy? I don't believe AIG should have been bailed out, and I feel the same way about the Big3. The government should not play favorites. There are too many lobbyists in DC to believe intervention in the economic market can be fair. Do you think it looks fair if Chrysler which is owned by Cerberus, who's CEO is former VP Dan Quayle gets billions of $'s? Maybe then Cerberus can funnel mucho $ back to Quayle's friends in DC to get elected? That is why typically the US government does not loan $ to businesses, and allows banks to. This argument that because A got $, then B should, and we should is what could break this country financially.  We have to stop promoting this drunken-sailor routine. Because we have wasted $ in the past, is not an excuse to say let's wate some more. It needs to STOP.
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Automotive News & Views Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?
