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Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?

3958 messages,  Last post on Oct 02, 2009 at 4:52 PM

You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires

What is this discussion about? Legislation


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#639 of 3958
Agreement? by pf_flyer HOST
Nov 20, 2008 (9:53 am)
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Reporting that some kind of deal has been reached and there's going to be an announcement at 6:30 this evening.
#640 of 3958
Re: Gettlefinger [gmctruck] by pf_flyer HOST
Nov 20, 2008 (9:54 am)
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Replying to: gmctruck (Nov 20, 2008 9:53 am)

The UAW definitely came across as arrogant and unwilling to bend today.
#641 of 3958
I do not favor a loan by chikoo
Nov 20, 2008 (10:09 am)
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simple reason.....and everybody in Washington can also see it
 
link title
#642 of 3958
Have to see if this plays by pf_flyer HOST
Nov 20, 2008 (10:22 am)
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Warning of economic disaster, Democrats and Republicans from auto industry states reached a deal Thursday on an alternative package that would temporarily divert money from a fuel-efficiency loan program to cover the Big Three's immediate costs. But it was unclear whether it could draw enough support to pass.
 
Using money that's already been appropriated MIGHT get it to sneak by.
#643 of 3958
Re: Have to see if this plays [pf_flyer] by fezo
Nov 20, 2008 (10:33 am)
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Replying to: pf_flyer (Nov 20, 2008 10:22 am)

Yeah, it looks like the compromise is what Bush wanted to do - divert the retooling money into the bailout. Of course come February we will then "owe" them another $25 billion.
 
This is like when you r kid asks for $20 for gas and you only have 10 and give it to him and he says "That's OK . You can owe me."
#644 of 3958
Re: Have to see if this plays [fezo] by euphonium
Nov 20, 2008 (10:45 am)
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Replying to: fezo (Nov 20, 2008 10:33 am)

Then when the kid runs out of gas, he calls for you to rescue him again after he knows he went too far in the first place.
 
Alcoholism isn't cured by giving the drunk a drink.
 
Bailing anybody is being an enabler.
#645 of 3958
How to not enable by pf_flyer HOST
Nov 20, 2008 (10:52 am)
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I think if they don't put REAL strict limits on how the money is used, changes we need to see, etc., then we need to remind the politicos of one thing...
 
The 2010 elections
 
I think people are angry enough that this time it's not going to be an idle threat against Congress. Do the job WE want you to do or you'll be looking for a real job
#646 of 3958
Re: A previous poster is quoted below. [euphonium] by jpf
Nov 20, 2008 (10:53 am)
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Replying to: euphonium (Nov 20, 2008 9:02 am)

So, let's get real tough. Let Ford, GM, and Chrysler fail. That's say 300,000 to 400,000 people unemployed. Now, throw in the 30% to 40% of the dealers that will go under, another say 100,000 unemployed people. Many of the parts suppliers who supply GM, Ford and Chrysler also supply Toyota's, Honda's, and Nissan's domestic production. These businesses can not survive if they lose their business to the Detroit 3. Thus, Toyota's, Honda's, and Nissan's plants will come to a standstill as well. How many more thousands of people will be thrown out of work? Can you say another Great Depression? Further, if you think we live in a true capitalistic society, dream on. Let's see, our agricultural sector is totally subsidized, likewise perks given to the defense industry, the bailout of banks, etc. The fact is we can fix the Detroit 3 by making it a Detroit 2 and forcing the rationalizing upon them that that they desparately need.
#647 of 3958
Re: A previous poster is quoted below. [jpf] by euphonium
Nov 20, 2008 (11:05 am)
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Replying to: jpf (Nov 20, 2008 10:53 am)

Prepare to witness, then, the awesome capacity of an unreformed Detroit to consume taxpayer billions with nothing to show for it.
#648 of 3958
Re: Gettlefinger [pf_flyer] by jae5
Nov 20, 2008 (11:06 am)
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Replying to: pf_flyer (Nov 20, 2008 9:30 am)

I gathered that as well listening / watching them the past two days. Gettlefinger flat-out stated that the concessions already made (to begin in 2010) were already in place and there was no need to make any more. Really blamed the management for this fiasco, who in turn blamed the financial crisis for their needing money.
 
To me it seems the CEOs and Gettlefinger are shooting themselves in the foot with their actions, arrogance and 1950s thinking (with the possible exception of Mulally). With Wagoner's comments / thoughts about resignation, acting as though he's playing the Neo character from "The Matrix" in the way he dodges any questions about having a plan in place for long-term profitability, GM may be done. He looks like a deer in headlights to me. And I don't think they made an impression by coming in with prepared statements that were obviously written by someone in marketing and sales. I mean, it's all right to have crib notes of a speech you prepared, and glance down every now and again to remember the fine points, but to not be able to look your audience in the eyes because you're too busy looking down at your speech doesn't exude readiness and knowledge of the subject matter at hand. They weren't even passionate while making those speeches; I mean, the professor was more passionate and he kind of looked like death warmed-over!! And where were the suppliers? These guys should have had some of their core and smaller suppliers there, or at least letters from them.
 
And with what's been happening with the TARP, AIG, getting fooled by Paulson, their own stupidity and all the other mistakes Congress made just giving the banks money, they need to posture and beat on somebody and unfortunately it's these people.

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