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Automotive News & Views Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?
3958 messages, Last post on Oct 02, 2009 at 4:52 PM
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Replying to: anythngbutgm (Nov 20, 2008 5:18 am) You could almost forgive their wasteful travel to beg, if they had offered any kind of hope for survival. They basically want the tax payer to keep them going till they figure out what they are going to do. I would rather just pay unemployment and let them start selling off their assets in bankruptcy. The sooner they get out of the auto business the sooner a viable group of automakers can fill our needs. There are millions of unsold vehicles and dealers bailing out by the droves. Their dealer networks being gone will mark the end of them anyway. Unless Wagoner plans to sell online and hire illegals to drive your new car cross country to your home.
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 20, 2008 5:31 am) He also qualified his support of a bailout. He said if this were 1999 and the economy is humming and unemployment at 4% he'd let them go bankrupt. Doing so now would only worsen the recession. He's got a point.
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I don't know why, but I have this gut feeling that we're going to see a "bankruptcy that's not a bankruptcy". I don't think anything is going to happen until Congress returns from a TWO MONTH VACATION.  But no matter who is President, they're simply not going let the automakers take down the economy. It's not that a bankruptcy filing by a company, even as big as GM, would be enough to take us down. But given the current emotional state of the economy, we don't need anythng more piled on top. Just a gut guess, but I'm thinking that any "bailout" package is going to void UAW contracts and force labor costs back into line. And if there's resistance to that, then the other option is a REAL bankruptcy filing which will get the automaker out from under those contracts. Now how would that play out for real? Imagine GM filing Chapt 11 so they can restructure. Suddenly their labor costs are eased. How long does it take for the other automakers to follow suit and try to find a way to cut their labor costs? I know that's a simplistic view that ignores parts suppliers and creditors and all that, but at the core of this, within the walls of the Castle of the Domestic Automaker, looms the labor cost dragon. Bubbles grow and burst all the time. The dot.com bubble, housing bubble, oil and gas prices... UAW wages have been moving in one direction for a loooong time.
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Replying to: fezo (Nov 20, 2008 5:39 am) Without a feasible business recovery plan, all the bailout money in the world will not save GM. Get all the pain out of the way now instead of waiting until later and causing another setback when everything is finally starting to recover. GM's problems started long before the financial crisis and bailing them out will only prolong the inevitable. |
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Replying to: pf_flyer (Nov 20, 2008 5:52 am) I doubt it. Private businesses file for bankruptcy and go out of business every day, so why should the automakers receive special treatment when they haven't done enough on their own to make things better? It is simply unfair for the government to step in and save automotive industry related jobs when workers in other industries are also losing their job by the thousands. Selective private business protection by the government is unfair and will eventually backfire.
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Replying to: gmctruck (Nov 20, 2008 6:20 am) I'm not sure how I feel about Waggoner's assertion that GM is ready to move forward and just needs this money to "tide it over". It bothers me that people seem to think we can avoid ALL pain or that the pain will be "fair". And the numbers that get thrown around bother me, as if $25 billion was some insignificant amount compared to the $700 billion financial package. Nobody ever puts those in perspective. The automakers want $25 billion? OK, let's break out the checkbook. According to the US Census Bureau population clock there are approximately 305,699,790 citizens in the US. Do we want to write a check for $81.78 for each of us to do this thing? Is it worth $327 to my family of four ONE time? Will that get the job done? But this seems like crack... if we "save" one private industry, where do we stop? The airline industry certainly is important to the business world, yet a fair number of airlines were allowed to go into bankruptcy protection and restructure themselves and are still flying today. I've said it before. I need assurances that this money isn't going down a perpetually hungry black hole. I need to hear what pain the automaker and the UAW is going to take in exchange for the taxpayer's pain. Right now I'm only hearing how this money will help them avoid pain. |
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Replying to: sellaturcica (Nov 19, 2008 3:50 pm) But, this was Lee Iaccocca's deal. Lee, and all the other execs with Chrysler at the time were running the show with both Chrysler and their new acquisition.....AMC. Matter of fact, most of the AMC/Renault team was blamed for much of the problem with AMC. It didn't take long for them to be jettisoned and for Chrysler's design and engineering teams to take over. They were responsible for something of a renaissance of the Jeep brand....overhauling and reengineering all the Jeep vehicles. The design/engineering portion of AMC/Renault (Eagle) didn't last very long in the marketplace. The most influential portion of that team had a hand in the development of the Eagle Premiere. But, even that car was thoroughly re-designed by Chrysler engineering (spawning the successful "cab-forward" design for the Dodge Intrepid and Chrysler 300M). |
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| this morning that there will not be a vote on the bailout package today, as originally scheduled. They had a sound bite from some congressman who reiterated the view we have been hearing again and again that it is unlikely there will be anything passed before February. The Congress feels it is being rushed, and that this is not something they should be rushing. | |
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Replying to: pf_flyer (Nov 20, 2008 6:42 am) I want to hear from the "big 3" how they're planning to right their own ship....how they're going to use the money....and, how/when they plan to be solvent again...for now, and in the future. I'm not hearing anything like that now. All I'm hearing is "give us money".
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Replying to: graphicguy (Nov 20, 2008 6:59 am) There are questions that need to be asked and need to be answered. That's a big part of why were in the place we're at right now. Here's how I THOUGHT it went: So, you'd like to borrow some money for a (insert CAR, TRUCK, BOAT, HOUSE here)? Um yea... OK, let's take a look at your credit... Hmm... sorry, but since you can't afford this loan, we can't give it to you. Have a nice day. Silly me, thinking things worked like that. 
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