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Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?

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#608 of 3958 Re: Yeah, I kind of miss AMC... [graphicguy] by carthell Nov 19, 2008 (8:05 pm)
Replying to: graphicguy (Nov 19, 2008 12:30 pm) "Chrysler gobbled them up, mainly for the Jeep brand. They made a stab at marketing some cars AMC had pretty far in development (called Eagle). Supposedly, Eagle was going to go 'head-to-head' with the European makes. But, that dream was short lived and Chrysler eventually did away with the Eagle brand, leaving nothing but Jeep as a remnant of the old AMC."   Wasn't the Premier morphed into the Vision, Intrepid, Concorde, and the previous 300? Not all of it went away.
#609 of 3958 Let them go Bankrupt by gardis Nov 19, 2008 (8:08 pm)
The car companies need to go into Chapt. 11 bankruptcy protection. The union contracts which have destroyed that industry must be shredded, and the workers told either you work for Toyota's wages, or we close the doors permanently. Period. That's it. The American people are not having any of it, folks. And do you know The Democrats are owned by the unions, and I don't see them rushing to loan the Big 3 any money, do you? They know if they do, in 2010 we replace the entire Congress again with Republicans, period. Replies to this message: jpf (Nov 19, 2008 8:27 pm) gmctruck (Nov 19, 2008 8:41 pm)
#610 of 3958 Re: Let them go Bankrupt [gardis] by jpf Nov 19, 2008 (8:27 pm)
Replying to: gardis (Nov 19, 2008 8:08 pm) If they go into bankruptcy, it's lights out. First, the bankruptcy of any one of the big three will be so complex that it may take 3 or 4 years to sort it out. Just look at the bankruptcy of Delphi, GM's primary parts supplier. Delphi went into bankruptcy 3 years ago and it still hasn't re-emerged. With an automaker, who would be willing to buy their cars and trucks while their in bankruptcy? Hardly anyone because car buyers would be concerned about the warranty. I believe the only way for this bailout to work is for the government to dictate the terms. First, the government should force GM and Chrysler to merge. The market can not simply support 3 U.S. automakers. Second, shut down all excess capacity. This would force the automakers to get rid of unpopular brands like Pontiac, Buick, GMC trucks, Chrysler, Hummer, Saab, Saturn, and Mercury This is where the government can help by assisting the automakers become leaner. Only under these conditions can 2 U.S. automakers - Ford and a combined GM/Chrysler survive. Replies to this message: gmctruck (Nov 19, 2008 8:41 pm)
#611 of 3958 Re: Did they do ANY good? [dieselone] by gmctruck Nov 19, 2008 (8:29 pm)
Replying to: dieselone (Nov 19, 2008 6:12 pm) I agree.... I only saw more of the same old arrogance displayed by the big 3 execs. I think the right questions were being asked, but Wagoner couldn't give any straight answers. It is very clear that he doesn't have a plan to fix GM at any cost. He can only offer lame excuses and vague answers to tough questions that a highly compensated CEO of a major corporation should be able to answer.   It was also interesting when the execs were asked if they would take $1 for compensation.... only the Chrysler exec said yes. It is clear that the Ford and GM execs aren't willing to sacrifice any of their own personal compensation to help save their companies.   I think Ford will survive, but it will be sink or swim time for GM and Chrysler. Bankruptcy seems to be the best option for GM, but the execs are still clinging to their arrogance and the notion that as GM goes, so does the economy. Replies to this message: anythngbutgm (Nov 20, 2008 5:18 am) gagrice (Nov 20, 2008 5:31 am) fezo (Nov 20, 2008 5:39 am) and 1 more...
#612 of 3958 Re: Posturing [pf_flyer] by gagrice Nov 19, 2008 (8:30 pm)
Replying to: pf_flyer (Nov 19, 2008 6:09 pm) I would say the Democrats on both coasts do not share the doomsday scenario that many in the middle would like US to believe. I am not convinced that automaker failure would not be a real boost to the economy. People would have faith in a system that is still based on good economics and not failed doctrines. The American people want to see we are not throwing more tax dollars down the toilet. Those fat cat CEOs need to put the jets on eBay and ride a bus home. Or drive one of the cars they sell. Those are two Democrats I could vote for.   I hope they are two of the NO votes on any kind of bailout for the automakers.
#613 of 3958 Re: Did they do ANY good? [dieselone] by tlong Nov 19, 2008 (8:41 pm)
Replying to: dieselone (Nov 19, 2008 6:12 pm) Yeah, I watched some of the CEO testimonies and to me it confirmed what I've long thought of Wagoner.   Agree - Wagoner looked worse IMHO than any of the others. He has no vision, no plan. His idea of the restructuring he's done is to negotiate some cost reductions with UAW. No fundamental changes in the company. In fact he said that they've ALREADY done the restructuring and are just needing this bridge loan until the economy improves.   GM needs to fire Wagoner, and demand the UAW radically modify the contracts or they'll go BK and then there's no guarantee that the UAW at GM will have any jobs at all.   Ford is doing OK right now and I'm fine with investing in them. Surprisingly, Nardelli looked pretty good, although their products are still no good.
#614 of 3958 Re: Let them go Bankrupt [jpf] by gmctruck Nov 19, 2008 (8:41 pm)
Replying to: jpf (Nov 19, 2008 8:27 pm) The government should not be involved in running the US automotive business. The big 3 are independent businesses and not government agencies that provide a service to the general public.   The path is clear... regardless of the complexity. It's not going to be easy or pretty to watch, but hopefully the Phoenix will rise again from the ashes.
#615 of 3958 by meglassakt Nov 20, 2008 (3:22 am)
The Big 3 are 'World Class' competitive !   Did you listen to Micheal Moore.., i think he is close enough to being right !   General Wesley Clark 'U.S. Army'(from NY Times) says the government should help the Big 3 !   Can the Big 3(the companies) help starving people by just giving them cash.., The banks get trillions(3,000,000,000 or more, i've heard 9,000,000,000).
#616 of 3958 Re: Posturing [pf_flyer] by circlew Nov 20, 2008 (4:44 am)
Replying to: pf_flyer (Nov 19, 2008 6:09 pm) Should have arrived in a couple of priuses and Escape Hybrids. Big mistake but apropos with their decision making history. No plans? What irony!   Good luck making it past January, Wagoner!   Regards, OW
#617 of 3958 Re: Did they do ANY good? [gmctruck] by anythngbutgm Nov 20, 2008 (5:18 am)
Replying to: gmctruck (Nov 19, 2008 8:29 pm) I believe Bill Ford influenced that question. I remember he recieved a total of 1$ for his salary during a good chunk of his tenure until Ford was doing better again. Of course he still got plenty through stock options, but it sure did send a message to me that they at least acknowledged there was a problem. Replies to this message: gagrice (Nov 20, 2008 5:31 am) fezo (Nov 20, 2008 5:39 am) gmctruck (Nov 20, 2008 5:59 am)

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