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Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?

3958 messages,  Last post on Oct 02, 2009 at 4:52 PM

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What is this discussion about? Legislation


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#3945 of 3958
Taxpayers face heavy losses on auto bailout by gagrice
Sep 09, 2009 (7:23 am)
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WASHINGTON (AP) -- Taxpayers face losses on a significant portion of the $81 billion in government aid provided to the auto industry, an oversight panel said in a report to be released Wednesday.
 
The Congressional Oversight Panel did not provide an estimate of the projected loss in its latest monthly report on the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program. But it said most of the $23 billion initially provided to General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC late last year is unlikely to be repaid.
 
"I think they drove a very hard bargain," said Elizabeth Warren, the panel's chairwoman and a law professor at Harvard University, referring to the Obama administration's Treasury Department. "But it may not be enough."
 
The prospect of recovering the government's assistance to GM and Chrysler is heavily dependent on shares of the two companies rising to unprecedented levels, the report said. The government owns 10 percent of Chrysler and 61 percent of GM. The two companies are currently private but are expected to issue stock, in GM's case by next year.
 
The shares "will have to appreciate sharply" for taxpayers to get their money back, the report said.
 
For example, GM's market value would have to reach $67.6 billion, the report said, a "highly optimistic" estimate and more than the $57.2 billion GM was worth at the height of its share value in April 2008. And in the case of Chrysler, about $5.4 billion of the $14.3 billion provided to the company is "highly unlikely" to ever be repaid, the panel said.

 
Flushed down the toilet
#3946 of 3958
Re: Taxpayers face heavy losses on auto bailout [gagrice] by pf_flyer HOST
Sep 09, 2009 (10:52 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Sep 09, 2009 7:23 am)

No, Really??
 
And they wonder why I expect nothing but equally fuzzy math when a certain someone addresses a joint session of Congress tonight.
 
#3947 of 3958
Re: Taxpayers face heavy losses on auto bailout [pf_flyer] by gagrice
Sep 09, 2009 (12:02 pm)
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Replying to: pf_flyer (Sep 09, 2009 10:52 am)

Who in their right mind would buy stock in GM or C with that baggage attached? You would be married to the UAW with VEBA owning a controlling interest. No Thanks, I am happy with my Ford bought at $1.76 per share. It has kept my 401K doing well.
 
Fuzzy math should be taught in the schools. That is all we are getting from the Federal Government.
#3948 of 3958
Re: billions and billions [nippononly] by cooterbfd
Sep 09, 2009 (12:45 pm)
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Replying to: nippononly (Aug 10, 2009 7:38 pm)

Why would he waste his time on the Genesis, when he can get a new Lacrosse?
#3949 of 3958
Re: billions and billions [cooterbfd] by dieselone
Sep 09, 2009 (3:42 pm)
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Sep 09, 2009 12:45 pm)

Why would he waste his time on the Genesis, when he can get a new Lacrosse?
 
Lacrosse CXL vs. Genesis 4.6
 
Because the Genesis offers more for your money. In the above comparison the Genesis 4.6 was only $3k more. Has over 100hp more and gets the same fuel economy and was quieter. I'd buy a Taurus SHO for 40k instead of the LaCrosse. More HP, AWD, more technology, and the same fuel economy.
 
CTS vs Genesis v6
 
In this article the v6 Genesis is picked above what is IMO GM's most impressive car.
#3950 of 3958
Penske's Buyout of Saturn Unravels by hpmctorque
Sep 30, 2009 (5:57 pm)
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The announcement today that GM will shutter Saturn, since the Penske Auto Group will no longer buy Saturn, damages the government's decision to try to rescue GM.
#3951 of 3958
Re: Penske's Buyout of Saturn Unravels [hpmctorque] by kernick
Sep 30, 2009 (6:25 pm)
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Replying to: hpmctorque (Sep 30, 2009 5:57 pm)

Well the president could invoke the Patriot Act to protect the country - What's good for GM is good for the U.S. - and buy Penske. Then Penske can buy Saturn and Saturn can be sold to Penske. Then the government just needs to sell Penske-Saturn. Maybe AIG could use government $ to buy Saturn-Penske?
 
And we'll all just be happy producing too many cars, for a country with high-taxes who can't afford to buy the cars we produce.
 
That's a solution for Obama and Congress. Start more car plants to put people back to work. Hire a few million people, pay them $70,000/year with great benefits, and just make lots of cars. That'll solve the health -care issue too for many! Let's just continue to use tax $ to produce stuff we don't need.
#3952 of 3958
Re: Penske's Buyout of Saturn Unravels [hpmctorque] by british_rover
Oct 01, 2009 (1:18 pm)
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Replying to: hpmctorque (Sep 30, 2009 5:57 pm)

But Saturn was part of the Old GM and was never part of the rescue plan anyway.
#3953 of 3958
Re: Penske's Buyout of Saturn Unravels [british_rover] by hpmctorque
Oct 01, 2009 (7:56 pm)
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Replying to: british_rover (Oct 01, 2009 1:18 pm)

Perhaps, but it would have been better financially for GM, and for the dealers and employees who are associated with Saturn, for the brand to have been sold than forced to shut it down.
#3954 of 3958
Re: Penske's Buyout of Saturn Unravels [hpmctorque] by kernick
Oct 02, 2009 (8:50 am)
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Replying to: hpmctorque (Oct 01, 2009 7:56 pm)

I think you're missing that's what just collapsed. GM ws trying to sell Saturn to Penske. Penske doesn't want it, given the conditions.
 
Maybe you think GM could put Saturn on Ebay? What would you bid?

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