You are here: Forums Automotive News & Views Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?

Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?

3958 messages,  Last post on Oct 02, 2009 at 4:52 PM

You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires

What is this discussion about? Legislation

Messages Page 383 of 397 1 ... 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 ... 397 Prev Next Last

Go To Msg # Search This Discussion

#3814 of 3958 Re: Let's [gagrice] by bpizzuti May 07, 2009 (6:05 am)
Replying to: gagrice (May 07, 2009 5:35 am) If the Feds can steal money you have loaned they can steal your land or any other property.   On the other hand, if the bondholders can steal money we have loaned, they may just be able to do the same. Then we're really up a certain creek without a paddle, aren't we?   These days I have (a little) more faith in the government than in large, rich (and crooked) investment houses. They both try to steal, they both figure they're entitled to. But at least there's more accountability in the government. Considering how little accountability there actually IS in the government....again, anyone have a paddle? Replies to this message: gagrice (May 07, 2009 6:15 am) ruking1 (May 07, 2009 7:28 am)
#3815 of 3958 Re: Let's [bpizzuti] by gagrice May 07, 2009 (6:15 am)
Replying to: bpizzuti (May 07, 2009 6:05 am) On that note we agree. I think we are screwed. I got a paddle that I keep meaning to fix. Replies to this message: ruking1 (May 07, 2009 7:28 am)
#3816 of 3958 Re: Let's [gagrice] by ruking1 May 07, 2009 (7:28 am)
Replying to: gagrice (May 07, 2009 6:15 am) GM posts $6B 1Q loss, spends $10.2B in cash   link title
#3817 of 3958 Re: Let's [tlong] by nvbanker May 07, 2009 (8:38 am)
Replying to: tlong (May 06, 2009 10:33 pm) What I wonder about is why the ratings agencies (Moody's, etc.) didn't downgrade the credit sooner. Why didn't the ridiculously expensive Sarbanes-Oxley controls warn us that the D3 and especially the banks were all just houses of cards? That's where we should throw our ire. The bondholders of GM and C debt were idiots.   I completely agree.
#3818 of 3958 Even if they get out of the woods..... by ruking1 May 07, 2009 (11:58 am)
Porsche and Volkswagen Consider a Full Merger   link title
#3819 of 3958 Re: How's this for a RADICAL idea?... [gagrice] by cooterbfd May 07, 2009 (1:35 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (May 06, 2009 5:49 pm) Gary, the only thing is, if the Gov't is indeed the top of the totem pole, and let's say they get forced into Ch 7, and the gov't insists on being made whole, and the judge agrees, then I doubt there are enough assets to sell to even make that happen. Then, we get whatever we can, and the bond and shareholders get zippo, (not even the lighter).   I think it's in everyone best interest to make this happen, and then make it work. At least then, at 10% equity, the bondholders have an opportunity to make their money back, and then some.   BTW, as far as the GM stock thing, I thing the 100-1 stock swap is for regular shareholders only. The formula they are using would allow shareholders to end up with a grand total of 1% of all outstanding shares.
#3820 of 3958 Re: How's this for a RADICAL idea?... [imidazol97] by circlew May 07, 2009 (3:28 pm)
Replying to: imidazol97 (May 06, 2009 7:37 am) They know good cars when they drive them. The US auto industry is past life support.   The baby is out with the bathwater. Time to stamp a new logo on the steel already in inventory.   Regards, OW
#3821 of 3958 Re: How's this for a RADICAL idea?... [kdhspyder] by circlew May 07, 2009 (3:37 pm)
Replying to: kdhspyder (May 06, 2009 2:54 pm)   That equity stake is akin to a Ponzi scheme...a sure bet,no doubt! I'm not buying!!   WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- Financial analysts are casting doubt on General Motors Corp.'s (GM) ability to repay billions of dollars in U.S. government loans, given the company's debt load and sales outlook.   GM has acknowledged it can't repay the U.S. loans in the original time frame. It is proposing that the Treasury Department accept majority ownership (51%) of the company in exchange for wiping out about $10 billion in debt. Discussions are ongoing.   But even with a large equity stake, the government risks losing at least some of the $15.4 billion it has lent GM since January, analysts said.   It would likely take years of profits and a significant appreciation of the company's value for the government to recoup all of its money, analysts said. That time frame would appear to conflict with the Obama administration's insistence that any government takeover of the company be short-lived.   "Should a GM bankruptcy not proceed as the government wishes, or demand for GM automobiles doesn't rebound, there is an outsized risk that the government could sustain substantial losses," said Joe Brusuelas, a director at Moody's Economy.com. He called the original decision to lend to GM risky given the company's condition.   Aaron Bragman, an automotive analyst with the consulting company IHS Global Insight, said that with a stake in the company, the U.S. government "will be left to wait, and hope that GM can pull out of this nosedive and be a successful company when this is done."   Regards, OW
#3822 of 3958 Re: How's this for a RADICAL idea?... [gagrice] by circlew May 07, 2009 (3:40 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (May 06, 2009 3:09 pm) The money is gone but NOT FORGOTEN!   Regards, OW
#3823 of 3958 Re: How's this for a RADICAL idea?... [kdhspyder] by circlew May 07, 2009 (3:47 pm)
Replying to: kdhspyder (May 06, 2009 4:18 pm) Correct....but sales will never rebound in volumes necessary. That obviates any debt repayment in our lifetime since sales will not cover the debt, let alone operating expenses.   The Obama administration has already acknowledged that it likely won't recoup $4 billion it lent to Chrysler this winter, conceding the loan was made to a deeply leveraged company "where there was probably never much hope of seeing much recovery." In addition, Chrysler probably won't be able repay in full $4.5 billion in bankruptcy financing from the U.S. and Canadian governments, an adviser to the auto maker said at a court hearing earlier this week   Sayonara bailot $$$$.   Regards, OW Replies to this message: kdhspyder (May 07, 2009 4:10 pm) circlew (May 07, 2009 4:23 pm) imidazol97 (May 07, 2009 4:32 pm)

Messages Page 383 of 397 1 ... 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 ... 397 Prev Next Last

Go To Msg # Search This Discussion

You are here: Forums Automotive News & Views Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?