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Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?

3958 messages,  Last post on Oct 02, 2009 at 4:52 PM

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What is this discussion about? Legislation


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#2150 of 3958
Re: 10M Vehicle Sales might be High [kernick] by xrunner2
Jan 16, 2009 (10:36 am)
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Replying to: kernick (Jan 16, 2009 9:13 am)

What you are saying is kind of in line with Sen Corker and some other Republican Senators. If Congress were controlled by Republicans, your scenario might have well played out. It is the Democrat Senators and Reps mostly who are beholden to unions and UAW that prevented a type of chapter 11 reorg. Then, Bush stepped in at the last minute to release funds so that Big 3 would not fall on his watch.
#2151 of 3958
Re: 10M Vehicle Sales might be High [xrunner2] by bpizzuti
Jan 16, 2009 (10:52 am)
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Replying to: xrunner2 (Jan 16, 2009 10:36 am)

Look, let's face it, between Democrats who are beholden to the UAW, and Republicans who are beholden to Big Corporate, there were never going to be any real strings.
#2152 of 3958
Re: Example for GM or Chrysler [euphonium] by lemko
Jan 16, 2009 (12:22 pm)
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Replying to: euphonium (Jan 16, 2009 10:26 am)

I'm sure not ALL 34K Circuit City employees got themselves over their heads with subprime mortgages. Lots of idiots did screw themselves buying more house than they could possibly afford. The key to home affordability is two remarkably simple formulas:
 
Gross Annual Income X 3 = MAXIMUM Mortgage.
Total Mortgage / 100 = MAXIMUM Monthly Payment.
 
For instance - if your gross income is $70K, the most your mortgage should be is $210K.
 
$210K / 100 = $2,100.
 
Even then, $2,100 is a heck of a burden for somebody only making $70K gross. I'd try to work down from that figure.
#2153 of 3958
Re: Example for GM or Chrysler [lemko] by fezo
Jan 16, 2009 (12:29 pm)
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Replying to: lemko (Jan 16, 2009 12:22 pm)

I agree completely. when we bought our house we were at the top of that maximum but that was based only on my income and we knew my wife would be working shortly and it was doable. I wouldn't think of going over that.
 
Had i believed everything I read before the real estate bubble burst they'd have lent me twice what I paid for the house on an equity loan. Not a chance.
#2154 of 3958
Re: Example for GM or Chrysler [fezo] by lemko
Jan 16, 2009 (12:54 pm)
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Replying to: fezo (Jan 16, 2009 12:29 pm)

I got my place before the bubble really started to grow. Had I waited a year, I realistically couldn't afford my own place even though the mortgage people were willing to throw me enough money to practically buy a Main Line mansion! I got a little "smart" with one crafty broker. I said to him:
 
"Let me look into my crystal ball. A friend comes over to see me in my new house financed by your company. My friend says to me, 'What a beautiful house you have, Lemko!' I say, 'Thank you! Let me show you around! There's my milk crate entertainment center complete with a Philco black and white portable, my Sears all-in-one AM/FM 8-track stereo and all my K-tel cartridges. In here is my cable spool kitchen table with expended beer kegs for seats, if you look in front of my huge 3-car garage you'll see my orange 1973 hatchback with the brown door. Would you like some dinner? I've got ramen noodles and a six-pack of OId Milwaukee! Oops, sorry! I'm late for my third job at Wal~Mart!"
#2155 of 3958
Re: Example for GM or Chrysler [lemko] by fezo
Jan 16, 2009 (1:03 pm)
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Replying to: lemko (Jan 16, 2009 12:54 pm)

yeah, that's the drill all right. When did yo buy? Early 90s?
#2156 of 3958
Re: Example for GM or Chrysler [fezo] by lemko
Jan 16, 2009 (1:36 pm)
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Replying to: fezo (Jan 16, 2009 1:03 pm)

Actually, I bought my current place in January 2003. I had another place prior that I lived in since May 1992, but the neighborhood started going bad, so l left. It's a really good thing I did because in the last week a heroin stash house was uncovered and two clerks were shot in a stand-off after a botched robbery of a pharmacy. Both were within a block of my old place. Sad, because the neighborhood was beautiful 10-15 years ago.
 
Philly didn't experience the housing bubble like places like Los Angeles, Phoenix, Miami, or Las Vegas. Some places in the nicer suburbs got ridiculous and I shunned them like an ebola-infested gorilla! Today, I pass all those formerly pricy places and they have one thing in common - For Sale signs.
 
My current mortgage+homeowner's insurance+taxes payment is < $1,000! I just hope my current 'hood doesn't suffer the same fate as my old one. The good thing is, they are actually building new homes in my neighborhood that start at $300K! Good luck finding buyers in this economic climate!
#2157 of 3958
Re: Example for GM or Chrysler [lemko] by kernick
Jan 16, 2009 (1:39 pm)
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Replying to: lemko (Jan 16, 2009 12:54 pm)

No. No. No. The deal was to get a 100% loan on a new home, which is okay, knowing that the value of housing was going up 10% per year. You were supposed to buy the house, and then a month later go down the bank, get them to reappraise the house higher, and then take a home equity loan on that higher appraisal to buy your furniture.
 
If the appraisal wasn't high enough for all your furniture, then you would get some high limit credit cards; because after all you're the type of person who could afford an expensive house.
 
Either they were a bunch of crooks, or idiots; OR both.
 
Now has anyone here figured out how long it will take for GM and Chrysler to payback the loans. Do a best-case study - taking the highest profit either had in the last 10 years, and figuring they'll make 50% of that each year on average going forward (so if GM made 2 billion in their best year, let's say GM makes $1B every year from now on).
 
Also consider this. Stockholders buy a stock to share in the profits. If all GM's profits go to repay the loan, why is anyone going to want GM stock for years?
#2158 of 3958
Re: Example for GM or Chrysler [kernick] by lemko
Jan 16, 2009 (1:49 pm)
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Replying to: kernick (Jan 16, 2009 1:39 pm)

Aaaaghhh! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! I would NEVER draw on the equity of my home except as a last-ditch Hail Mary attempt to stave-off a temporary financial set-back after I've exhausted every other option. A cash-advance against a credit card causes one to take a bigger bath than being thrown off the Queen Mary wearing cement shoes in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean!
 
The type who can "afford" an expensive house are usually the type who can "afford" to buy a big blingy SUV with the wheels that keep on spinnin' and spinnin' and spinnin'!
#2159 of 3958
Re: Example for GM or Chrysler [kernick] by xrunner2
Jan 16, 2009 (2:53 pm)
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Replying to: kernick (Jan 16, 2009 1:39 pm)

Watch HGTV on cable or satellite to see first time house buyers getting approved for big loans and zero down. These episodes were made maybe from 2005 to mid 2008. These were young couples maybe living in an apt or were scheduled to get married soon. Besides financial mess contributed to by banks, lending institutions, Barney Frank, Maxine Waters, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, maybe HGTV deserves some blame for showing episodes of zero down home buying and glorifying the got-to-have-it-now mentality.

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