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Automotive News & Views Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?
3958 messages, Last post on Oct 02, 2009 at 4:52 PM
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Replying to: dieselone (Dec 14, 2008 8:54 am) It hasn't changed very much. I had to drive a 3 year old Suburban a few months ago. I don't think there is any engineering in that vehicle. The seats are comfortable and you have a lot of steel that might help in case of an accident. No feel for the road, thin steering wheel, no logic to the placement of instruments. I couldn't wait to get out of it. There is a lack of engineering and pride. The attitude is design it and get it on the road the cheapest way possible - with parts from the lowest bidder.
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Replying to: lemko (Dec 14, 2008 9:47 am) Too bad you tried the Mercedes in 1989, because the prices dropped dramatically in 1999 beginning with the lower priced C class. I have driven Infinities and Maximas and though they have state of the art engineering, they are too jazzy for my tastes. If you are comparing a 1994 Jetta to a Cadillac isn't quite fair, you'd have to compare it to a Cavalier or X-car, and they weren't award winners either. I had a real image problem with a BMW too, that's why we went with a Mercedes in 99. We traded in a my wife's Ford built 1995 Volvo which was the worst car we ever had. I still bought Jeeps and when it was time to trade I thought I would just try an X3 - though I knew it was just to satisfy my curiosity. The image thing was very difficult for me to overcome - I like to think of myself as a regular guy - and basically I am. I got into an X3 for a test drive and I didn't want to get out. I loved my 2 Jeeps, but there was no comparison. I couldn't go back to an American car now. And the image thing, well, it is just an image, I haven't changed one bit......but I do appreciate the engineering and thought that goes into making a fine car. |
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Replying to: driver100 (Dec 14, 2008 9:54 am) That would been basically the same as my 2000 Suburban, and yes those are trash. The 2007 is much much better. Reliability aside, I'd much rather have a 2000 Passat over any GM sedan of that year. I can't think of one GM sedan in 2000 that is worth a crap. I know that will make Lemko gag, but I'm sorry, that's how I see it. Reliability to me has very little bearing on how desirable a car is. I'd prefer a bicycle over driving something like a late 80's to early '00 Buick. I've driven enough Park Aves and LeSabre's to know those cars are lousy in many ways. I have an uncle that still drives a 2000 Passat GLX that he bought new in 2000. He's pushing 200k on it. Sure, it hasn't been smooth sailing as he has had some mechanical failures, but fit-n-finish and build quality shame cars like my wife's 07 Grand Prix, that 10 year old VW is quieter, much more solid than the GP. Not to mention interior quality, no comparison. |
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Replying to: driver100 (Dec 14, 2008 10:11 am) ford didn't buy volvo until 1999. 
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Replying to: explorerx4 (Dec 14, 2008 11:33 am) 1) Volvo was purchased in 1999 by Ford, I stand corrected. My wife really liked her 2 previous Volvos before buying her 1995 and she didn't like it from the beginning...she said it handled like a big American car. When the lease was up I suppose I heard Ford was buying Volvo and I guess it made an impression on my brain that this lemon of a Volvo was only going to get worse once Ford got their hands on it. 2)Right on the 2nd count too, except for a faulty memory, I am still a regular guy. 
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Replying to: dieselone (Dec 14, 2008 10:26 am) We tend to harp on reliability of the D3, but when you get right down to it, it is as much about quality of the product as reliability. VW is well known to have mediocre to poor reliability, and their cost of repair is high. Yet they retain their value quite well compared with most D3 vehicles. Why is that? IMHO it is because they are beautifully crafted inside, and they drive with precision. They are very desirable (but perhaps not reliable) vehicles. The D3 vehicles are all over the map on reliability, but how many are highly desirable? Not many. The D3 should put together some premium vehicles with refinement, quality interiors, and smooth engines that also look good. Charge a few grand more. The customers will notice.
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Replying to: dieselone (Dec 14, 2008 10:26 am) Shoot, I'd rather walk than trust anything from VW again. I don't care how nice a VW interior is or how great the ergonomics are if the car is going to be in the shop every other Tuesday or leave me stranded in some god-forsaken place. My ex-girlfriend's Jetta wasn't the only bad one I've seen. A friend and I were riding in his brother's Rabbit when we heard this horrible thud and the left rear of the car suddenly collapsed. The shock absorber broke right through the tower! Another friend bought a new 2000 Jetta. It was plagued with so many electrical and transmission problems, he dumped it at a loss for a 2001 Saturn. Another friend bought a new Scirocco back in the 1980s and it was delivered with mismatched taillamp lenses and the driver's seat collapsed. Don't forget the horrid Dasher which I refer to as the Trasher. |
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Replying to: tlong (Dec 14, 2008 2:27 pm) |
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Replying to: lemko (Dec 14, 2008 2:29 pm) It's funny how different people come away with completely opposite experiences regarding the vehicles we discuss. Like I've said I've put lots of miles on my grandpa's cars over the years. I disliked everyone of his Buick's. When he passed in '03, his '00 Park Ave went to my parents. I volunteered to drive that car from Tampa to the Chicago area. The car wreaked of cheapness and questionable build quality. I liked the exterior looks, but the interior was terrible. I loved driving 1200 miles with windshield wipers that would turn on by themselves, the fuel gauge that sometimes worked and sometimes didn't. That was the type of car I'd rather ride in than drive, because of numb steering, brakes, and nausea inducing float. But I know my grandpa loved that kind of ride. As for VW, When I bought my '00 Jetta TDI, my BIL also bought a '00 Jetta GLS, and my uncle bought a '00 Passat GLS. These were all manual trans cars, but only my uncle had any issues, but they were not severe enough for him to dump the car as he still has it. I only kept my Jetta about a year, but I put 35k miles on it w/o any issues. My BIL kept his Jetta 3 years w/o any trouble and he traded that in on an '03 Passat. He drove than about 3 years and zero problems with it. I know VW has had issues as I've read about them, but from my experience they are not all bad. Which is similar to your experience with GM. The opposite of mine.
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Replying to: lemko (Dec 14, 2008 2:29 pm) A friend had a Jetta, maybe 2001. The windows fell down unexpectedly. The check engine light kept coming on. The closer Cincinnati dealer treated them like crap--didn't want to work on their own brand of car. So he kept taking to the purchase dealer about 15 miles further away in Fairfield. They'd keep the car and get the light off and then return it. Big nuisance. I've never had falling windows and check engine lights erratically on in my GM products. Two years ago they traded the monster--for the VW Bug that his wife wanted. They had it in for service and there was something that was going to require $780 of cost so he traded it instead... grin  . His wife had a bug in her younger days so she liked the idea of another one and she doesn't like to drive large cars like their Pacifica..
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