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Automotive News & Views Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?
3958 messages, Last post on Oct 02, 2009 at 4:52 PM
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Replying to: driver100 (Dec 14, 2008 8:36 am) That has pretty much been my experience too. When I had a 2000 Jetta GLS Tdi, I compared it to my grandpa's 2000 Park Ave that cost $15k more. What a joke. The fit-n-finish along with the quality of materials and the tactile feel of the switchgear in the Jetta were worlds ahead of the Park Ave. The only advantage the Park Ave had was it was huge in comparison and it had sofa comfy seats. While VW reliability is often questioned, I didn't have any trouble with mine, and my grandpa's Park Ave was always in the shop with various expensive failures. I'd bet a '00 Jetta TDI has a resale value that's probably double that of a '00 Park Ave now. It was the same way when I owned an '01 Nissan Pathfinder and a '00 Suburban simultaneously. The Pathfinder shamed the Suburban in terms of materials, fit-n-finish, ride control, powertrain refinement, and the PF felt like a bank fault in terms of overall tightness when compared to the Suburban. I'd drive them on washboard surfaces on a gravel road I often traveled that the Pathfinder could go 50 mph on while driving with one hand, that the Suburban would literally start to self-destruct with the suspension slamming all over the place and the dash literally reverberating to the point parts would fall of at 25 mph. I'd have to drive with both hands to maintain control. It was that bad. One time I actually had the overhead console that enclosed the rear HVAC controls fall from the ceiling while driving down that dirt road. It got to the point if I had to go that way, I'd only take the PF, and when I turned the PF in on lease, I would avoid that road with the Suburban. Now that was nearly 10 years ago and GMs newer interior designs and refinement seem to be much better.
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Replying to: kernick (Dec 14, 2008 8:42 am)
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Replying to: driver100 (Dec 14, 2008 8:36 am) I did consider a new 1989 Mercedes 560SEL right around the time I bought my 1989 Cadillac Brougham, but the car was $73,600 - more than twice what I paid for my Caddy. It was a good car and the W126 generation seemed like the last really great Mercedes. The 1992 generation S-Class was an overwrought tank currently favored by Russian mafiosi in NE Philly. My brother-in-law has a 2000 S430 that has been plagued by problems ever since he had it. It didn't bode well when I saw it for the first time, opened the passenger door, and the sill plate fell off. Maxima = cheesy Nissan interior and bizarre styling. Infinity = Styled by space aliens. Acura = Honda Deluxe. The RL would've been nice had they put a V-8 in it instead of a puny V-6. BMW = Absolutely deplore the image that goes with the car and absolutely fear the repair and maintenance costs. They once were somewhat attractive until Bangle ruined them. You might not think much of my Buicks, but they are extremely reliable, durable, and I can depend on them getting me to work for decades.
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Replying to: dieselone (Dec 14, 2008 8:54 am) It hasn't changed very much. I had to drive a 3 year old Suburban a few months ago. I don't think there is any engineering in that vehicle. The seats are comfortable and you have a lot of steel that might help in case of an accident. No feel for the road, thin steering wheel, no logic to the placement of instruments. I couldn't wait to get out of it. There is a lack of engineering and pride. The attitude is design it and get it on the road the cheapest way possible - with parts from the lowest bidder.
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Replying to: lemko (Dec 14, 2008 9:47 am) Too bad you tried the Mercedes in 1989, because the prices dropped dramatically in 1999 beginning with the lower priced C class. I have driven Infinities and Maximas and though they have state of the art engineering, they are too jazzy for my tastes. If you are comparing a 1994 Jetta to a Cadillac isn't quite fair, you'd have to compare it to a Cavalier or X-car, and they weren't award winners either. I had a real image problem with a BMW too, that's why we went with a Mercedes in 99. We traded in a my wife's Ford built 1995 Volvo which was the worst car we ever had. I still bought Jeeps and when it was time to trade I thought I would just try an X3 - though I knew it was just to satisfy my curiosity. The image thing was very difficult for me to overcome - I like to think of myself as a regular guy - and basically I am. I got into an X3 for a test drive and I didn't want to get out. I loved my 2 Jeeps, but there was no comparison. I couldn't go back to an American car now. And the image thing, well, it is just an image, I haven't changed one bit......but I do appreciate the engineering and thought that goes into making a fine car. |
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Replying to: driver100 (Dec 14, 2008 9:54 am) That would been basically the same as my 2000 Suburban, and yes those are trash. The 2007 is much much better. Reliability aside, I'd much rather have a 2000 Passat over any GM sedan of that year. I can't think of one GM sedan in 2000 that is worth a crap. I know that will make Lemko gag, but I'm sorry, that's how I see it. Reliability to me has very little bearing on how desirable a car is. I'd prefer a bicycle over driving something like a late 80's to early '00 Buick. I've driven enough Park Aves and LeSabre's to know those cars are lousy in many ways. I have an uncle that still drives a 2000 Passat GLX that he bought new in 2000. He's pushing 200k on it. Sure, it hasn't been smooth sailing as he has had some mechanical failures, but fit-n-finish and build quality shame cars like my wife's 07 Grand Prix, that 10 year old VW is quieter, much more solid than the GP. Not to mention interior quality, no comparison. |
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Replying to: driver100 (Dec 14, 2008 10:11 am) ford didn't buy volvo until 1999. 
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Replying to: explorerx4 (Dec 14, 2008 11:33 am) 1) Volvo was purchased in 1999 by Ford, I stand corrected. My wife really liked her 2 previous Volvos before buying her 1995 and she didn't like it from the beginning...she said it handled like a big American car. When the lease was up I suppose I heard Ford was buying Volvo and I guess it made an impression on my brain that this lemon of a Volvo was only going to get worse once Ford got their hands on it. 2)Right on the 2nd count too, except for a faulty memory, I am still a regular guy. 
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Replying to: dieselone (Dec 14, 2008 10:26 am) We tend to harp on reliability of the D3, but when you get right down to it, it is as much about quality of the product as reliability. VW is well known to have mediocre to poor reliability, and their cost of repair is high. Yet they retain their value quite well compared with most D3 vehicles. Why is that? IMHO it is because they are beautifully crafted inside, and they drive with precision. They are very desirable (but perhaps not reliable) vehicles. The D3 vehicles are all over the map on reliability, but how many are highly desirable? Not many. The D3 should put together some premium vehicles with refinement, quality interiors, and smooth engines that also look good. Charge a few grand more. The customers will notice.
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Replying to: dieselone (Dec 14, 2008 10:26 am) Shoot, I'd rather walk than trust anything from VW again. I don't care how nice a VW interior is or how great the ergonomics are if the car is going to be in the shop every other Tuesday or leave me stranded in some god-forsaken place. My ex-girlfriend's Jetta wasn't the only bad one I've seen. A friend and I were riding in his brother's Rabbit when we heard this horrible thud and the left rear of the car suddenly collapsed. The shock absorber broke right through the tower! Another friend bought a new 2000 Jetta. It was plagued with so many electrical and transmission problems, he dumped it at a loss for a 2001 Saturn. Another friend bought a new Scirocco back in the 1980s and it was delivered with mismatched taillamp lenses and the driver's seat collapsed. Don't forget the horrid Dasher which I refer to as the Trasher. |
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