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Automotive News & Views Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?
3958 messages, Last post on Oct 02, 2009 at 4:52 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
Ford and Chrysler build decent cars for the money. GM is overpriced junk maybe your grandmother has a 3.8 liter buick that is ok but GM cannot build a decent 4 cylinder or small V6 ...how about GM Air Conditioners, head gaskets, and brake problems that go on year after year and decade after decade un resolved. Please let GM go and save Chrysler and Ford we consumers will be better off without GM. Ford and Chrysler will do better withou GM around to stink up the reputation of the remaining 2
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isn't the federal government supposed to look out for the best interest of the country as a whole? why haven't they done anything that is not reactionary since when? what is their plan to keep the usa ahead of the global curve? sometimes the politics seems to cloud the focus. |
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Replying to: iwant12 (Dec 13, 2008 5:12 pm) We are just a few of the many in this world who have respect for Mr. Wallace. We disagree on some things as has been noted today. Sadly, I have never met him and missed a chance last weekend to help his charity with a gift at one of his sponsors. He's the first thing I read. Just got home from helping the economy and have tomorrow's paper.
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Replying to: kernick (Dec 13, 2008 7:17 am) No bailouts for any, indeed - but to draw an arbitrary line for one where far more evil forces are allowed to prosper with public funds isn't very logical, itself. If's not about logic, never has been, never will be. This insane bent towards dog eat dog Misean capitalism (lacking any venues of accountability for economic terrorists) will not produce logic, it will produce a plutocratic oligarchy with a two and a half tiered serfdom society. The assets of banking executives should be confiscated, by force if need be, to repay their corporate debts. The hiding of assets offshore should be made a severe crime, too. Of course, those who hold such assets are the ones who truly make the rules and direct the US (no matter what silly voters want to believe) - so your idea or mine have zero chance of ever existing.
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Dear Employee, Next week, Congress and the current Administration will determine whether to provide immediate support to the domestic auto industry to help it through one of the most difficult economic times in our nation’s history. Your elected officials must hear from all of us now on why this support is critical to our continuing the progress we began prior to the global financial crisis………………….As an employee, you have a lot at stake and continue to be one of our most effective and passionate voices. I know GM can count on you to have your voice heard. Thank you for your urgent action and ongoing support. Troy Clarke President General Motors North America ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From Gregory Knox, In response to your request to call legislators and ask for a bailout for the United States automakers please consider the following, and please also pass this onto Troy Clark, the president of General Motors North America for me. You are both infected with the same entitlement mentality that has bred like cancerous germs in UAW halls for the last countless decades, and whose plague is now sweeping the nation, awaiting our new “messiah” to wave his magical=2 0wand and make all our problems go away, while at the same time allowing our once great nation to keep “living the dream”… The dream is over! The dream that we can ignore the consumer for years while management myopically focuses on its personal rewards packages at the same time that our factories have been filled with the worlds most overpaid, arrogant, ignorant and laziest entitlement minded “laborers” without paying the price for these atrocities…and that still the masses will line up to buy our products Don’t tell me I’m wrong. Don’t accuse me of not knowing of what I speak. I have called on Ford,GM ,Chrysler,TRW,Delphi,Kelsey Hayes, American Axle and countless other automotive OEM’s and Tier ones for 3 decades now throughout the Midwest and what I’ve seen over the years in these union shops can only be described as disgusting. Mr Clark, the president of General Motors, states: There is widespread sentiment in this country, our government and especially in the media that the current crisis is completely the result of bad management. It is not… You’re right – it’s not JUST management…how about the electricians who walk around the plants like lords in feudal times, making people wait on them for countless hours while they drag ass…so they can come in on the weekend and make double and triple time…for a job they easily could have done within their normal 40 hour week How about the line workers who threaten newbies with all kinds of scare tactics…for putting out too many parts on a shift…and for being too productive (mustn’t expose the lazy bums who have been getting overpaid for decades for their horrific underproduction, must we?!?) Do you really not know about this stuff?!? How about this great sentiment abridged from Mr. Clarke’s sad plea: over the last few years …we have closed the quality and efficiency gaps with our competitors. What the hell has Detroit been doing for the last 40 years?!? Did we really JUST wake up to the gaps in quality and efficiency between us and them? The K car vs. the Accord? The Pinto vs. the Civic?!? Do I need to go on? We are living through the inevitable outcome of the actions of the United States auto industry for decades. Time to pay for your sins, Detroit. I attended an economic summit last week where a brilliant economist, Alan Beaulieu surprised the crowd when he said he would not have given the banks a penny of “bailout money”. Yes, he said, this would cause short term problems, but despite what people like George Bush and Troy Clark would have us believe, the sun would in fact rise the next day… and something else would happen…where there had been greedy and sloppy banks new efficient ones would pop up…that is how a free market system works…it does work…if we would let it work… But for some reason we are now deciding that the rest of the world is right and that capitalism doesn’t work – that we need the government to step in and “save us”…save us, hell – we’re nationalizing…and unfortunately too many of this once fine nations citizens don’t even have a clue that this is what’s really happening…but they sure can tell you the stats on their favorite sports teams…yeah – THAT’S important… Does it occur to ANYONE that the “competition” has been producing vehicles, EXTREMELY PROFITABLY, for decades now in this country?… How can that be??? Let’s see… Fuel efficient… Listening to customers… Investing in the proper tooling and automation for the long haul… Not being too complacent or arrogant to listen to Dr W Edwards Deming 4 decades ago Ever increased productivity through quality, lean and six sigma plans… Treating vendors like strategic partners, rather than like “the enemy”… Efficient front and back offices… Non union environment… Again, I could go on and on, but I really wouldn’t be telling anyone anything they really don’t already know in their hearts I have six children,=2 0so I am not unfamiliar with the concept of wanting someone to bail you out of a mess that you have gotten yourself into – my children do this on a weekly, if not daily basis, as I did at their age. I do for them what my parents did for me (one of their greatest gifts, by the way) – I make them stand on their own two feet and accept the consequences of their actions and work them through. Radical concept, huh… Am I there for them in the wings? Of course – but only until such time as they need to be fully on their own as adults I don’t want to oversimplify a complex situation, but there certainly are unmistakable parallels here between the proper role of parenting and government. Detroit and the United States need to pay for their sins. Bad news people – it’s coming whether we like it or not The newly elected Messiah really doesn’t have a magic wand big enough to “make it all go away” I laughed as I heard Obama “reeling it back in” almost immediately after the vote count was tallied…”we might not do it in a year…or in four…” where was that kind of talk when he was RUNNING for the office Stop trying to put off the inevitable … That house in Florida really isn’t worth $750,000… People who jump across a border really don’t deserve free health care benefits… That job driving that forklift for the big 3 really isn’t worth $85,000 a year… We really shouldn’t allow Wal-Mart to stock their shelves with products acquired from a country that unfairly manipulates their currency and has the most atrocious human rights infractions on the face of the globe… That couple whose combined income is less than $50,000 really shouldn’t be living in that $485,000 home… Let the market correct itself people – it will. Yes it will be painful, but it’s gonna be painful either way, and the bright side of my proposal is that on the other side o
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 13, 2008 12:36 pm) I've played them all and Bosendorfer is Boss.
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Replying to: euphonium (Dec 13, 2008 9:05 pm)
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Replying to: fintail (Dec 13, 2008 6:49 pm) ... but to draw an arbitrary line for one where far more evil forces are allowed to prosper with public funds isn't very logical, itself. If's not about logic, never has been, never will be. If "never" why do you spend energy and time recanting these examples, since "never" would mean you're just wasting your time - speaking of the problems.  Yes over the years the population of this country has given more and more power and money to the government, and then like children we ask the government to help us. It's pretty sad. It leads to citizens who can't help themselves, and puts so much money into "the system" that it attracts or brings out the worst human qualities. The more we can put people in government who will downsize, taking the money out of the government the better. Maybe then we can get rid of some of the 40K+ lobbyists who live in DC. If you want to reduce corruption you need to reduce the $ that attracts them. There is definitely political influence bordering on corruption of where and how these bailout moneys are going. Anyway I can influence the reduction of power and money into the political system I do - that includes doling out money to any industry. To say the government should help the B3 is to just to allow them to concentrate more power, and to make this the norm.
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Replying to: euphonium (Dec 13, 2008 8:56 pm) Excellent points .......hope others will read your post. Two things come to mind, they tried nationalization of the auto industry in Britain and it failed miserably. The unions only demanded more and the quality of the product went down. Once you get on the government gravy train it is really hard to get off. Second point is, you would think, that with all the economic geniuses who are teaching, or who graduated from University, (maybe Warren Buffet) etc, that someone would come up with a fairly definitive theory of what would be the best course of action at this time. I am inclined to agree that companies that fail should be left to fail, there are usually new companies who can move in and take their place. |
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Replying to: fintail (Dec 13, 2008 6:49 pm) 
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