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Automotive News & Views Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?
3958 messages, Last post on Oct 02, 2009 at 4:52 PM
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Replying to: berri (Dec 05, 2008 5:15 pm) This is mostly inaccurate and I'll explain why with a simple example. I was a direct supplier to the D3 for a long time. Every GM truck, every Chrysler auto, all Jeeps and all Mustangs and Crown Vics used our steel. Major supplier... So here is the example which disproves your fears... Goodyear. As a major corporation and OEM supplier Goodyear supplies every vehicle maker. They supply the most to GM likely simply because GM is the biggest, then Ford, then Toyota, etc, etc, etc. Say GM goes belly up and 2.5 million units of production are taken out of the supply side. Goodyear loses its GM business..that's bad. But hey what's this? Ford's and Toyota's and Nissan's orders are suddenly surging and now Goodyear has to change the destination of their shipments from say Lansing to San Antonio or Dearborn. What they lost at GM they find that they have gained at Ford and Toyota. Why? Because the buyers of those GM vehicles didn't suddenly ascend into heaven. They are still here in the US buying vehicles. Only now they are buying Fords and Toyotas and Nissans and Hondas and maybe but not likely Chryslers. Nothing changed at the Goodyear level. Another fear mongering balloon is shredded and falls to earth with a THUDDD. |
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Replying to: berri (Dec 06, 2008 1:43 pm) Wagoner is an inbred idiot. He may have inherited a mess. He did not change the direction. He continued to make the same mistakes of his inbred predecessors. He had so many opportunities to bust those UAW stranglehold contracts, and for the sake of keeping the constant flow of money into his pocket, he signed on the line. Anyone could see it was not going to be self sustaining much longer. He lost about 20% of the US market share during his 14 year tenure. His multi billion dollar losses are too many to list here. Think FIAT or as we said when we were kids Found In A Toilet. That is where Wagoner has put GM In the TOILET.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Dec 06, 2008 3:40 pm) I can't see it any other way. GM's losses are Ford, Toyota and Honda's gains. Michigan's losses are Alabama's gain. Been that way forever. Survival of the fittest. Any other way and you weaken the country.
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Replying to: berri (Dec 06, 2008 1:43 pm) Totally disagree. He's been in charge in North America for fourteen years. Just how long do you think he should be given? |
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 06, 2008 4:11 pm) And that's why GM should be allowed to fail. Ford is making much better moves and the market should reward them for that. If the US props up GM then Ford has beaten their competition but their competitor is artificially allowed to survive. Ford deserves the reward for better performance. |
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for the bailout: to save the economy, somewhat to have american technology to improve the neighborhood to offer engineering advancement in america to keep middle class households to maintain support for 650,000 retirees to keep a million people off the unemployment rolls against the bailout: 1. Japan has slight edge in percieved quality. Only the strongest should be allowed to survive 2. some of our American money might not be harvested and sent to japan 3. we can keep on arguing instead of moving on to the 28 bigger problems facing the US economy 4. what's in it for me? 5. my Honda runs great so nobody should ever need another car company 6. I want my neighbor who works for the Big3 to go into foreclosure so my house value can drop |
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You can google for the entire article. When you take a look at many American cars today, these aren't bad products. They're just not as good as Audi, Volkswagen, Mercedes or Lexus—the list goes on and on. When you see some of the stuff that Pontiac in particular has been doing for the last 20 years—it's insulting. And the interiors especially are insulting.... I don't understand it. We can build the greatest fighter planes on the planet. It's not like technology is the problem. There is no reason why there should be this kind of separation between Europe, Japan and us. Everyone wants to make the product issue about price. But I had a MINI Cooper S for a couple years. That car was sturdy and it looked good. It was smart, it was fast and it was fun. And that's a relatively inexpensive car... If it's a coin toss between buying American or buying foreign, we'll buy American every time. If it just comes down to the exact same product at the exact same price, we'll buy an American car because we're patriotic. We'll do the right thing, but not if it costs more and not if it's a subpar product. What the American Big Three have forced us to do is start being unpatriotic, so we ended up buying cars from other manufacturers. Remember Audi's problems? Audi was a joke 10 years ago. ...And Audi picked themselves up from the ashes. How? Started making good cars. Well, I think that's your answer. |
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This makes more sense than out bailout boondoggle. Give the money to the tax payers and let them decide which automakers survive. BUENOS AIRES, Dec 6 (Reuters) - Argentine automakers will sell basic models at cost through state-subsidized loans in a plan to protect jobs in Latin America's third-biggest economy from the global economic slowdown, government officials said on Saturday. Local plants of Renault SA (RENA.PA: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), General Motors (GM.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), Peugeot (PEUP.PA: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), Ford Motor Co. (F.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and other automakers will participate in the government's plan to protect 150,000 auto industry jobs and to keep production from falling steeply next year. "We have agreed with the plants that these cars will be offered without a profit margin and the dealerships will also reduce their profit margin," Industry Secretary Fernando Fraguio told a news conference on Saturday. The $890 million government auto loans program is part of a $3.8 billion economic stimulus package announced on Thursday by President Cristina Fernandez. Each automaker will offer two of its most economic models for the plan, while the government will provide three different financing packages with interest rates much lower than market rates, to be funded by the social security system. http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUSN0632016920081- 206 |
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...and this is for GM and C only! Ridiculous! The Big Three executives spent two consecutive days on Capitol Hill this past week pleading for as much as $34 billion in loans to help their industry survive. But they made clear that $15 billion would be enough to keep them running until the end of March 2009. GM has indicated it needs about $10 billion to last that long, while Chrysler chief executive Bob Nardelli said his company would need $4 billion. Ford's chief executive, Alan Mulally, said Ford did not anticipate needing any federal cash during that period. 3 Months = $14B Regards, OW |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Dec 06, 2008 3:40 pm) Unfortunately there likely isn't enough current US plant capacity at Ford and the transplants to meet all of the lost GM volume. So it will take imports and they won't be using those US vendors. |
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