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Automotive News & Views Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?
3958 messages, Last post on Oct 02, 2009 at 4:52 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: morin2 (Dec 05, 2008 6:58 pm) Whatever Congress or the Executive branch have done last week or 5 years ago, is irrelevant to the present and deciding what is right and fair? To add to errors by committing the same errors/biases is not correct. These few companies happen to be doing the right thing - both to their employees and to the taxpayer who saves the cost of paying those benefits. They were forced into a contract by the unions. How the Big3 and their unions use their money is their business - they decide. If they wish to give it all away in pay, bonuses, stock options, Job Banks, and excessive pension pay and benefits that's they're business. They have made those choices over many years. Now that that they have burned thru all their money, they want taxpayer $ to continue on!  THAT is the problem I have with it. They screwup, and everyone else (on average) who does not make as much or expect that sort of pension is being asked, or should I say forced to pay for them! I'd rather see my tax dollars used to help companies that make something than companies that sell paper. You mean your Social Security funds and your descendants lower standard of living w/higher taxes. Because any $ loaned that is not repayed is tacked onto our $11,000,000,000,000 national debt. The federal government does not have limitless $; it is funded by people who invest in Treasuries and such. If the government continues to act like the Big3 and use it's reserves in give-aways to people and corporations, the U.S. government ends up in a similar position as the Big3 today. When the government is so far in debt, and the average consumer is so far in debt, there will be no recovery for many, many years. That may be now. We need to end bailouts and giveaways; and STOP using the jealousy arguments of "they got this last year and were wasting $ in Iraq, ... ". We need to stop government spending anytime we can. |
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Replying to: joel0622 (Dec 06, 2008 6:17 am) Ford Motor Co. CEO Alan Mulally said his company doesn’t immediately need loans but is supporting GM and Chrysler to prevent a failure and the consequential collapse of the domestic parts supply base. Ford says it may need $9 billion if one of its rivals doesn’t survive. It's like an options package where all you want is Bluetooth but you need to pay $4,500 for the Premium Package with all the other goodies. If GM or C goes, you pay. If you pay them the $25B, I'm good! Get it? He does not have to take the $1 compensation because the taxpayers keep everything alive. Regards, OW
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Replying to: berri (Dec 05, 2008 5:15 pm) This is a very unlikely scenario, that has been thrown out by proponents of the bailout, who have $34B to gain - may I add, to scare the general public who has little business and market understanding. It is thrown out so the common man polls in favor of the loan, and Congress is pressured into a bad decision. The fact is that GM or Chrysler might go bankrupt first. Say if that's GM; the result is that GM loses it's market-share of 25%. The other manufacturers have spare capacity as their sales are down about 30-40%. What happens? The business is transferred to the other manufacturers, and this HELPS THEM, and they may become profitable again. Suppliers to Ford and Chrysler would see an increase in business, and would hire additional shifts, or bring back any laidoff workers. IF GM, Ford and Chrysler get loans they still will layoff many hundreds of thousands of people, simply because either way customers are going to buy 10M vehicles next year. The auto industry will employ enough people to make and sell 10M people next year, no matter if it's corporate entity A, B, C, and D or owned by stockholders W, X, Y, and Z. That means either a few companies and suppliers go out of business, or everyone cuts back some. Either way you have to cut suppliers and plants, and employees in the entire auto industry to get from 16M to 10M vehicles. It's just your choice to waste $34B to keep jobs at A, B, and C instead of spending $0 letting the market decide which corporations survive. |
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Replying to: circlew (Dec 06, 2008 8:10 am) They could all never hit another lick for the rest of there lives and never be worried about money.
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Replying to: joel0622 (Dec 06, 2008 8:24 am)
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Replying to: berri (Dec 06, 2008 8:53 am) Because the UAW has contracts, you can't just lay off the ones you need to. So you go get concessions. Everybody keeps their jobs in the near term, but their benefits are reduced. Much of the costs are retiree costs which are not the issue with the Wall Street crowd. |
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Replying to: jimbres (Dec 05, 2008 3:10 pm)
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Replying to: lemko (Dec 06, 2008 9:31 am) China is our rival - not our enemy. There's a big difference, which anyone old enough to remember the Cold War can explain to you. Anyway, if you want to revive the American auto industry, you should be solidly in favor of bankruptcy for the Big 3. Perhaps Ford doesn't yet need it, but GM & Chrysler certainly do. Toss the dead brands (Pontiac & Dodge, for example) overboard & bring in fresh management to lead what's worth saving (Cadillac, for example). That just might trigger an industry rebirth.
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Replying to: jimbres (Dec 06, 2008 10:15 am) China was actually our ally during WW2. They saved some of our fighting men. Yes we are competing with them and trading with them. We buy more junk from them than they buy from US. Who's fault is it that we cannot get enough Nintendos and Gameboys? I look for China to buy a lot of the property sold in the liquidation of the Big 3. |
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GM should convert from a For-profit organizaton to a Charity not-for-profit organization. Heck, even charity organizations seems to be have done better 
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