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Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?

3958 messages,  Last post on Oct 02, 2009 at 4:52 PM

You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires

What is this discussion about? Legislation


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#1093 of 3958
Re: Car Pool to Washington [kernick] by dave8697
Dec 02, 2008 (1:46 pm)
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Replying to: kernick (Dec 02, 2008 9:47 am)

Your comment did not say it was turbocharged. I still can't find info on it. The pull down list under mazda on edmunds shows the speed3 but not the speed6.
#1094 of 3958
Re: Car Pool to Washington [kdhspyder] by cooterbfd
Dec 02, 2008 (1:54 pm)
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Dec 02, 2008 7:44 am)

"Your lack of knowledge is showing."
 
No, YOUR lack of knowledge of lemko is showing. He's being faceitious
#1095 of 3958
Re: Car Pool to Washington [kernick] by dave8697
Dec 02, 2008 (1:58 pm)
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Replying to: kernick (Dec 02, 2008 9:47 am)

I see the speed 3 weighs 3153 lbs and has a turbo 263 hp 2.3 liter. It can be had for $24,800 out the door at Edmunds TMV pricing and 7% sales tax. I can't find info on the 6 but $22,200 OTD seems like 15-20% off sticker.
#1096 of 3958
Re: Car Pool to Washington [dave8697] by mpoisson1
Dec 02, 2008 (2:04 pm)
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Replying to: dave8697 (Dec 02, 2008 1:46 pm)

MazdaSpeed6 - that's because it is no longer in production. try Google.
#1097 of 3958
Re: Car Pool to Washington [mpoisson1] by chikoo
Dec 02, 2008 (2:08 pm)
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Replying to: mpoisson1 (Dec 02, 2008 2:04 pm)

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=mazdaSpeedVehic- lesMazdaspeed6&bhcp=1
#1098 of 3958
Re: Car Pool to Washington [chikoo] by fezo
Dec 02, 2008 (2:28 pm)
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Replying to: chikoo (Dec 02, 2008 2:08 pm)

I'm kind of disappointed in GM's plan as I see it. "Shrink Pontiac to a niche brand?" What the heck is it now? Of course they are saying that Buick, with three models, is a core brand. I am confused. Heck, there are more models of Saabs than that.
 
I don't know. Ford looks like they have a plan. GM's looks an awfully lot like the SNL skit.
#1099 of 3958
Re: Car Pool to Washington [fezo] by gagrice
Dec 02, 2008 (4:04 pm)
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Replying to: fezo (Dec 02, 2008 2:28 pm)

Ford looks like they have a plan. GM's looks an awfully lot like the SNL skit
 
I read that plan also. Unless some serious concessions come from the executives and the UAW, it look like business as usual. What happens if they don't get $4 billion this month. I say no loans for GM. If Ford wants a credit line to fall back on that would be good. GM is toast. I just do not believe the doom scenario being shoved down our throats. How does less than 96,000 GM employees losing their jobs balloon to 3 million?
#1100 of 3958
Re: Car Pool to Washington [gagrice] by joel0622
Dec 02, 2008 (4:07 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 02, 2008 4:04 pm)

Wonder what happens if they like one or two plans and don't like the other?
#1101 of 3958
Re: GM in Automotive News [joel0622] by gagrice
Dec 02, 2008 (4:20 pm)
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Replying to: joel0622 (Dec 02, 2008 1:41 pm)

Let me get this straight. GM is going to cut 1/3rd of their nameplates and about 2000 of its dealers. Do they plan to sell as many vehicles as they did before? If not I was just reading an article from 2005 that says each GM vehicle has $1600 in legacy costs to retirees pension and health care. Each car less they sell makes that price higher per vehicle. How are they going to get out of those obligations with the plan they have laid out? Now they are losing twice as much with no chance of regaining any market share. That just will not happen. They will keep losing market share with nothing to stop the bleeding.
 
Why GM's Plan Won't Work ...and the ugly road ahead May 2005
And make no mistake, GM is in a horrible bind. That $1.1 billion loss in the first quarter doesn't begin to tell the whole story. The carmaker is saddled with a $1,600-per-vehicle handicap in so-called legacy costs, mostly retiree health and pension benefits. Any day now, GM is likely to get slapped with a junk-bond rating. GM has lost a breathtaking 74% of its market value -- some $43 billion -- since spring of 2000, giving it a valuation of $15 billion. What really scares investors is that GM keeps losing ground in its core business of selling cars. Underinvestment has left it struggling to catch up in technology and design. Sales fell 5.2% on GM's home turf last quarter as Toyota Motor Corp. (TM ), Nissan Motor Co. (NSANY ), and other more nimble competitors ate GM's lunch. Last month, CEO G. Richard "Rick" Wagoner Jr. and his team gave up even guessing where they'll stand financially at the end of this year.
 
Worst of all, GM reached a watershed in its four-decade decline in market share. After losing two percentage points of share over the past year to log in at 25.6%, GM has reached the point at which it actually consumes more cash than it brings in making cars, for the first time since the early '90s. GM, once the world's premier auto maker, is now cash-flow-negative. That's a game changer. Without growth, GM's strategy of simply trying to keep its factories humming and squeaking by until its legacy costs start to diminish is no longer tenable. If market share continues to slip, its losses will rapidly balloon.

 
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_19/b3932001_mz001.htm
#1102 of 3958
Re: Car Pool to Washington [joel0622] by gagrice
Dec 02, 2008 (4:25 pm)
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Replying to: joel0622 (Dec 02, 2008 4:07 pm)

If Congress looks at the whole it will get voted down at least till next session. If they look at each proposal I would say Ford has the best chance of getting the $9 billion loan guarantee. That is much easier to stomach than just an $18 billion handout to GM. Anyone that thinks that GM will ever pay back that money along with the $66 billion they owe now is just not realistic.

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