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Smart Shopper Got a Quick Question for a Car Dealer?
2394 messages, Last post on Nov 03, 2009 at 11:03 AM
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Replying to: boomchek (Jan 23, 2009 10:02 am) Just because a dealer has overpaid on the car, it doesn’t mean that the customer has to step up and save them by paying more than it is worth. That is absurd. Dealers don’t care what customers owe on their trade-ins. Why should customers care about what dealers owe on cars that they sell? Black Books (i.e. auction values) are very relevant to the value of a car. Auctions truly determine the true wholesale market value of the car. If the car is popular, it will be bid up higher; and if it is a dog, it will sell for less. My rule of thumb is; take the current wholesale book value of the car, add about $1500 for newer cars and $2500 for older units. That should cover transport, reconditioning and profit.
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Replying to: exb0 (Jan 24, 2009 7:56 am) If we paid over book for a car becaue it's truly and excellent example, then we'll wait for the right buyer to see that as well, and willing to pay that premium. And we will hold off for the right buyer, instead of taking a loss on it. If someone doesn't see the value then they're not obligated to pay X amount, just as we're not obligated to sell it for what a "price guide" says it should be sold for.
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Replying to: boomchek (Jan 24, 2009 9:51 am) Look the discount really depends on how much the dealer is into the car for. If they paid too much for it on a trade either because it's a museum quality piece worth every penny, or because they needed to make a deal happen, there's not going to sell it at a certain price because black book says this or that. The highlighted clause was what I was referring to. Just because a dealer over allowed on a car to make his monthly bonus goals, that doesn’t mean that a customer should pay more for this car when they buy it used. Another thing that fascinates me is when salespeople complain about the cost of the repairs and reconditioning. If the dealer didn’t notice those problems at trade-in time and paid too much for the car; it is dealer’s problem, not customer’s.
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Replying to: exb0 (Jan 24, 2009 7:56 am) Sounds reasonable. I think that would generally put the value of a car between Edmunds trade-in value and private party. |
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Replying to: exb0 (Jan 24, 2009 10:11 am) Costs of repairs and reconditioning are real, and they add cost to vehicles. When it comes down to grinding to the last dollar and everything all the costs are out in the open, then yes these things will come up.
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Replying to: boomchek (Jan 24, 2009 11:25 am) I had that happen with a dealer down year ages ago. All he wanted to show me was how much he had into this car. He had receipts for all sorts of stuff he'd done. No matter what I said that's all he came back to. Since he couldn't get into where the real market was I just went elsewhere.
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Replying to: fezo (Jan 24, 2009 11:30 am) What I am saying is that, from buyers’ point of view, the reverse is true. Guides that are based on auction values represent the true market, and buyers should negotiate relative to that value; just like they should negotiate relative to the invoice and not MSRP. If the dealer refuses to deal with reality, then walk. Let them wait for an ignorant customer, or take the car to the wholesale auction where they’ll lose even more.
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Replying to: exb0 (Jan 25, 2009 8:18 am) Now if you were talking about the auction RESULTS, the "raw numbers" that Manheim issues on computer, that's a bit different than a "guide". A guide is like processed cheese, and the raw data has been plugged into formulas, and massaged this way and that, into compromises. But Manheim's raw data is just a list of what people paid at dealer auctions, listed by miles, equipment, etc. And even THERE you find price variations on a list of ten Saabs auctioned one right after the other.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jan 25, 2009 9:20 am)  I know guides are not perfect and there are better resources of information out there. However, Manheim's raw data is not available to regular buyers. The Black Book Online is available with some research. http://www.cudlautosmart.com/Research/TradeInValues.aspx?WT.svl=SubMenu This “guide”, as imperfect as it is, is still better than relying on dealers’ asking prices to determine what the market value of a car really is. If the Black Book Guide is so imperfect, why is it that every UCM that I have ever met has one in his pocket? But regardless, as a buyer with little knowledge of the market, would you rather base your offer on a wholesale “guide” value + X, or dealer’s asking price – X?
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Replying to: exb0 (Jan 25, 2009 12:31 pm) All new cars are the same, every used car is different. That's the mantra a car dealer will tell you, and you know, he's right. The dealer's "asking prices" are just him exercising his first amendment rights. He can ask whatever he wants. It's the buyer who sets the market price, not the guides, not the dealer. The guides' opinions and the dealer's opinions are *reflections* of what the buyer has already determined. If the dealer can sell a car repeatedly "over book" that means the guides are not in step with a sudden feverish demand. If the dealer's prices are too high and the cars "rot on the lot", then he goes out of business. Last of all, different guides showing different pricing based on what they are trying to accomplish. Guide X might show private party retail averages, Guide Y might show dealer REALIZED prices, Guide Z might show dealer ASKING prices as reported. Guide W might show auction wholesale pricing. Which one is right? They ALL ARE!
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