Last post on Nov 20, 2013 at 9:45 AM
You are in the Smart Shopper
What is this discussion about?
Car Buying, Car Selling
#3240 of 3350 Re: Novice negotiating online--Confused--Does this guy even want to sell a car? [isellhondas]
Jun 07, 2013 (11:14 pm)
"The ones I don't miss are the downright cheapskates who would cut my throat to save 50.00."
I am a firm negotiator, but I also realize that dealers are in business to make a profit. I usually acknowledge that fact up front and don't expect them to sell the car for a net profit of $20. I just go in knowing the invoice price, any applicable incentives and also any regional ad fees. I have never traded-in one of my cars (totaled the last one, sold all others to private buyers), but when I'm playing wingman for a friend of family member, we always swing by Carmax for a purchase quote. If Carmax can purchase the car outright for a certain amount, there's no logical reason that a dealer can't give at least that amount for trade-in.
I ended up locking horns with the used car manager when I was buying my 2012 CX-9 GT last November. I went by on the Tuesday evening before Thanksgiving to chat with the int1ernet sales manager I had been emailing and take a quick look at the vehicle, but didn't have time for a test drive. We talked numbers on the car and I didn't even attempt to negotiate the price any lower. It was about $2000 lower than what I was willing to pay! But it was a 2012 model and the new, redesigned ('refreshening' in my book) 2013 models were already on the lot. Sticker price was $37,385 and I paid $29,207 plus $499 doc fee for a total of $29,706. The used car manager offered $7500 for my '07 Explorer (with 134k miles on it) but ONLY if I did the deal that night! Any time I'm told that, there's a better chance that we'll both win the lottery and be struck by lighting simultaneously than of me buying anything right then! I do NOT respond to pressure.
Anyway, the next day was the day before Thanksgiving and I called my salesman and asked to take the CX-9 over the holiday and return it Friday morning, hopefully to seal the deal. I offered to leave my vehicle, my insurance policy info and sign a loaner agreement. I also was paying cash for the car, so I gave them the name and number of the branch manager at my bank to confirm that I had the funds to actually pay for it. They had it washed and waiting for me to pick up two hours later. =)
I returned on the day after Thanksgiving, which is an awesome day to buy a car, and I was the only customer all day, at least 'til 7pm when I finally got out of there. When he wrote up the deal, it was exactly as we had discussed except he added in an addition discount of $500 for an Owner Loyalty incentive since I have a 2006 Mazda3 also. I didn't have proof of ownership on my initial visit so he couldn't include it in the initial quote. Then he went to confirm the trade-in allowance and came back with $7250! I had already told him that I would walk out if I didn't get $7500. If he could offer it three days before, he could do the same today. Coincidentally, the Carmax four doors down the street gave me a purchase offer quote of $7500 earlier in the week. But I wanted to trade-in to get the sales tax savings.
For the next hour, my poor salesman tried to talk him up. Finally, I told him I wanted to speak to the General Manager. He said that he'd get in trouble if he involved, but I reminded him that I would still walk out if I didn't get $7500. Finally, I excused myself (he assumed to the restroom) an I casually walked down the hall and found the GM myself. I gave him the very abbreviated Cliff Notes version and he smiled, shook my hand and said "not a problem". He walked over the salesman's desk and wrote in "addiitional trade allowance- $250 per XX" and the deal was done!
I decided to do something that was equally kind to my salesman and spiteful to the used car manager. As soon as I left the lot in my new CX-9 I went over to Ruth's Chris steakhouse and bought a $200 gift certificate. I went back by the dealership and gave my salesman the gift certificate and $50 for a babysitter for his two kids. He knew I was being appreciative but also had ulterior motives, but he got $250 so he was happy. The used car manager overheard all of this and he looked at me like he could kill me. I gave a smirk, winked and drove off in my SUV....
#3241 of 3350 Re: Novice negotiating online--Confused--Does this guy even want to sell a car? [avatexrs1]
Jun 09, 2013 (5:07 am)
Sadly, this is similar to many dealers. Their sales people simply do not read the sales lead. I think part of it comes from the nature of the salesman. Typically a person with a bit of arrogance who believes they are so much smarter than we mere buyers. Of course it may be they just do not read well.
#3242 of 3350 Re: Novice negotiating online--Confused--Does this guy even want to sell a car? [ken117]
Jun 09, 2013 (3:54 pm)
Of course it may be they just do not read well.
That has to be it. No other logical explanation. Well come to think about it could also be selective reading.
#3243 of 3350 Re: Novice negotiating online--Confused--Does this guy even want to sell a car? [avatexrs1]
by Kirstie@Edmunds HOST
Jun 11, 2013 (1:34 pm)
That reminds me of dealing with those automated voice menu systems you get when calling cable/internet companies.
Voice: Just speak your question.
Me: I am having trouble accessing the internet.
Voice: I understand that you would like to access your account information. Is this correct? Just say "yes," or "no."
Voice: Great, I am transferring you to our automated account information system.
You didn't get a whole lot better, even with a live human being on the other end.
#3244 of 3350 Re: Novice negotiating online--Confused--Does this guy even want to sell a car? [isellhondas]
Jun 14, 2013 (4:29 am)
OF COURSE not all of us will shop the price. Really these days shopping a price is not necessary. I know I can always find several dealers who will sell me the same vehicle for the same price. The trick is to locate them. Using the Internet is the most efficient method to weed out the new age dealer from those dealers who remaining the four square selling mindset. GEE,ya think!
The key for consumers is to locate a dealer who is willing to sell at a competitive price. Dealers who provide a competitive price in response to an Internet inquiry generally represent that dealer. The dealer most likely respect the intelligence of the buyer. Dealers who do not are probably best ignored.
From a customer prospective, these days it may be the fastest way for a dealer to lose a sale is to not provide a customer what they request. This is particularly true of a price. Does a dealer want to be the one who never provides a price to any of ten Internet inquiries and then wonders why all ten bought from that dealer down the street or does the dealer want to be the one who provides ten prices and sells to three of those inquiries?
Today's car buyer,particularly the younger ones, know they control the deal, not the dealer. Buyers who settle for dealers who insist on the old way of selling are becoming rare. Those dealers who embrace that fact will prosper, those that do not will become irrelevant.
And really, how long will it be before the State franchising laws go the way of the T-Rex? Think of the money we could all save if we did not have to buy from a dealer! GEE, ya think?
#3245 of 3350 Re: Novice negotiating online--Confused--Does this guy even want to sell a car? [isellhondas]
Jun 14, 2013 (4:46 am)
Gee,ya think, what to heck does that mean? People who sell vehicles are so arrogant, they actually believe they are smarter than we mere buyers! I guess such an attitude, though false, was necessary in years past for a person to get involved in sales.
The fact is we buyers are getting smarter about auto sales each generation. We know the tricks car sales people use, we know about holdback, dealer cash, and invoices, we know about dealer reserve, we have seen the four square sheets, we know about the tower and the box, and we demand respect from the sales people if we are to buy.
The simple fact is dealers who are open with us and who give us a price when we request o e will earn our business, those that refuse will not.
The bottom line is we know the dealer needs us, we really do not need the dealer. This simple facts so very hard far too any dealers to grasp.
#3246 of 3350 Re: Novice negotiating online--Confused--Does this guy even want to sell a car? [karhill1]
Jun 14, 2013 (7:11 am)
People who sell vehicles are so arrogant, they actually believe they are smarter than we mere buyers! I guess such an attitude, though false, was necessary in years past for a person to get involved in sales.
Generalizing like that is not fair to the good salesman out there.
#3247 of 3350 Re: Novice negotiating online--Confused--Does this guy even want to sell a car? [verdugo]
Jun 14, 2013 (4:00 pm)
Well, my experience has shown sales people in the past did generally believe they were smarter than we mere buyers. Hence the lovely terms they used to describe us. I am sure some of today's sales people recognize reality. They are difficult to find.
#3248 of 3350 Re: Novice negotiating online--Confused--Does this guy even want to sell a car? [karhill1]
Jun 15, 2013 (1:05 am)
Well, my experience has shown sales people in the past did generally believe they were smarter than we mere buyers.
No need for them to believe as they were smarter than the average buyer. Years of training in the trenches, working the 4 square, negotiating with more buyers in a month that you would in ten years.
#3249 of 3350 Re: Novice negotiating online--Confused--Does this guy even want to sell a car? [obyone]
Jun 15, 2013 (5:21 am)
Bingo, you substantiated the point.
Do you really think years of "working the trenches" makes a sales person smarter than the average buyer. Of course you do, you are a salesman. Our point exactly.
The use of a four square simply allowed the sales person to resort to a well planned set of deceptions which were essentially orchestrated by the man in the tower.
The simple fact the average buyer has caught on to the tactics of the sales person along with the back end issues in the F&I office is clearly causing a great deal of consternation among our sales person friends. Much of that is due to the information provided by Edmunds.
Personally, I do not need more than one deal to know more than the sales person sitting across the table. I am smart enough to know it is my deal, my money. Seems more and more folks are learning that simple fact.
But if you continue to BELIEVE you are smarter than me, great. That assures I will get a better deal. Never good to underestimate that person sitting across the table. They may not be as ill informed as you believe.