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Automotive News & Views Lotus, the blind, and legislation?
18 messages, Last post on Oct 05, 2008 at 1:13 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
I am not blind and I can head a Prius coming up behind me on my bicycle. No it is not as loud as a V-8 with a flow master but it isn't deathly quiet either. The blind are not supposed to be listening to the cars they are supposed to listen to the light chirping like a bird on any number of other things we sighted people can hear when crossing at a light. It simply isn't necessary.
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Replying to: alltorque (Oct 03, 2008 12:30 pm) As for this 'quiet cars' nonsense, I filed a Freedom of Information Act request to find out what data analysis NHTSA had done on hybrid vs pedestrian safety. The NHTSA actually decided NOT to look at the fatality database even though the underlying legislation declares hybrids to be "extremely hazardous." Like King Canute and the tide, this nonsense legislation attempts to command the facts and data. Bob Wilson |
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Replying to: boaz47 (Oct 03, 2008 3:23 pm) The blind seem especially afraid about a hybrid sitting, stationary and silent. This consistently comes through every claim. Bob Wilson
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Replying to: steve_ (Oct 03, 2008 1:38 pm) Bob Wilson |
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Replying to: bwilson4web (Oct 03, 2008 4:35 pm)
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Replying to: boaz47 (Oct 04, 2008 8:09 am) Around here they put those plastic bump tiles (tactile mats or truncated domes) down at the curb cuts so the blind could tell they were at the street. They melted in the summer heat here in Boise (frequent summer days over 100°F). So they switched to the metal ones. Much more durable but the seeing eye dogs can't tolerate the hot bumps and avoid them. And they wind up being a tripping hazard for everyone. Bob, we'll probably move this one to Hybrids and link it back here.
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Replying to: steve_ (Oct 04, 2008 8:59 am) When I started tracking this issue, I looked for 'habis corpus,' where is the body? There aren't any after 5 years of traffic data. Neither us nor the NHTSA can find any statistics that support the claims of the blind. But the blind have made claims. The blind have used a series of anecdotal stories; (1) 8 year old boy turns into a Prius; (2) circled in a parking lot; and (3) foot run-over in parking lot by backing up Prius. Except for the backing over foot incident, a real problem with rear vision in all vehicles, the others had nothing to do with sound or injury. We have had the Prius rolling around since 2001 and this is all they can find. There are no accident statistics that support their claims. The blind have commissioned various 'experiments' only the results have no consistency. This remains a problem with all such experimental efforts. You can always design an experiment to show something you want, which is the risk. Bob Wilson
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Replying to: bwilson4web (Oct 04, 2008 10:50 am)  ); anyway the exec was testing a prototype hybrid electric and someone asked if the exec was cruising parking lots creeping up on people and the exec admitted that was a fun trick. I always relied on tire and general car noise when I did a lot of biking back in the 70's, and could hear a car approaching behind me a long way away, but I could see where a clip-clop or other noise would be a beneficial addition to an electric car in slow moving situations, like at intersections or in parking lots (beneficial to pedestrians that is).
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Replying to: steve_ (Oct 04, 2008 12:48 pm) I sat back and thought about this after I read it. What I pictured was what life in a city would be like with several million vehicles driving down the street with a clip clop sound coming from each one. Imagine a back up beeper on every car in LA driving down the street. Or maybe a voice saying..."woops watch out here comes a car.." over and over again. Even a ching ching like bell would drive us nuts if it were magnified 300,000 times in a small City. We have laws in some cities where you are not allowed to let you dog back for more than 10 minutes at any one time. How will people feel when they hear a noise loud enough to get a pedestrians attention 24/7.
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Replying to: boaz47 (Oct 04, 2008 1:13 pm) Cars are pretty noisy as it is. My last house was near an intersection and you'd frequently hear brake squeal and grinding shifters as people navigated through the intersection. But yeah, when I used to hike in bear country, other hiker's bells would drive me batty. Sort of depends on what you get used to I guess. When the weather is right I can hear the roar of tire noise on a highway 2 miles away and it's not pleasant.
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