Article Comments - 2011 Chevy Volt: Will GM Get It Done?

24 messages, Last post on Apr 25, 2009 at 5:05 AM

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What is this discussion about? Chevrolet Volt, Electric Cars

2011 Chevy Volt: Will GM Get It Done? - Most people view the GM EV1 as a dismal failure. Viewed from strictly a marketing perspective, they are right. (more)

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#2 of 24 Article Comments - 2011 Chevy Volt: Will GM Get It Done? by hpmctorque Sep 05, 2008 (5:51 am)
After reading the article, the only thing I can say until I see and drive the production version, or read reports about it, is I hope the Volt lives up to expectations. I want to see GM, and Ford and Chrysler survive and thrive. Incidentally, I understand that the point the writer was trying to make by mentioning the Corvair, Chevette, '85 Nova, and Saturn S1 with the Vega is that none of these survived. However, while the Vega had multiple design flows, and was a really bad car, the Corvair, Chevette, and S1 were okay for their day. They weren't great, best-in-class cars, and each had weaknesses, like most cars, but they were okay. They served a purpose, even though each was eventually superseded in the marketplace. In defense of these models, it should be pointed out that a lot of models are eventually retired, after their purpose in the marketplace has run its course. The '85-?? generation Nova was essentially a rebadged Toyota Corolla, jointly produced by the Toyota and GM joint venture, NUMMI, in a GM facility in California. It may not have been the most exciting entry of its day - Corollas usually aren't - but it was a good, solid car. As for the EV1, knowing what we know now about the price of gasoline, maybe GM should have kept the tooling ready to restart production of that car, or an updated version of it. If timing is everything, chances are the EV1 would have been much more successful beginning in '07 than it was earlier. A EV2 may have been a missed opportunity, a transition car while the Volt was being developed.
#3 of 24 Re: Article Comments - 2011 Chevy Volt: Will GM Get It Done? [KarenS] by hoosieriusb Sep 08, 2008 (7:59 pm)
Replying to: KarenS (Sep 04, 2008 5:04 pm) My father, like many fathers like him, used to be a loyal GM customer. The first GM he bought was a 1964 Pontiac station wagon, then a 1970 Chevy Impala station wagon, then a 1974 Chevy Impala station wagon, then a 1979 Caprice Sedan. All of them spent time in the repair shop, but these were largely the days before Toyotas and Hondas set the gold standard for reliability, and he thought that it was normal to have a car break down periodically. Then disaster struck. He bought a 1980 Citation, then a 1981 Citation. Both lemons. Countless hours in the repair shop. But what was more important is that these cars confirmed his thoughts, as well as his families and friends and millions of other Americans, that GM cars were unreliable. He then bought a 1984 Toyota Corolla, and has owned Toyotas (Camrys, Avalons, Prius, et.) every since - and so does his family. He vowed that no matter what car GM came out, he would never EVER buy one. As someone who experienced the GM Citation disaster as a teenager (me and my brother and sisters are all loyal Japanese car owners), I would really like to know how one car - no matter how "revolutionary" - is going to change the opinions of my father and millions of other potential customers that somehow GM now makes really reliable vehicles. Give me 10 years of reliability with the Volt and other models, and maybe - JUST MAYBE, I'll consider buying a GM. The author seems to be pointing the finger at the customer, saying that GM didn't fail with the EV1, WE (the public) did. We've seen this type of arrogance with GM before, and history has shown where this type of attitude leads customers - right to the showroom of their local Japanese car dealer. Replies to this message: lessachs (Apr 10, 2009 12:04 pm)
#4 of 24 Re: Article Comments - 2011 Chevy Volt: Will GM Get It Done? (ho by hpmctorque Sep 09, 2008 (9:45 am)
GM has sold tens of millions of vehicles in the past several years. There's evidence that quality, reliability and durability have improved greatly since the '70s and '80s, which is the period to which you refer. The people who are pleased with their current GM vehicle will consider buying another one. Replies to this message: easym1 (Sep 12, 2008 4:31 pm) steveaccord (Sep 14, 2008 3:45 pm) guy1974 (Sep 16, 2008 6:36 am)
#5 of 24 Re: Article Comments - 2011 Chevy Volt: Will GM Get It Done? (ho [hpmctorque] by easym1 Sep 12, 2008 (4:31 pm)
Replying to: hpmctorque (Sep 09, 2008 9:45 am) I hope that GM becomes successful with the VOLT. It would be great for the environment and great for our nation. We can then finally say, good work GM! Replies to this message: steveaccord (Sep 14, 2008 3:45 pm) guy1974 (Sep 16, 2008 6:36 am)
#6 of 24 Re: Article Comments - 2011 Chevy Volt: Will GM Get It Done? (ho [easym1] by steveaccord Sep 14, 2008 (3:45 pm)
Replying to: easym1 (Sep 12, 2008 4:31 pm) Hi All, I also read about the Volt but the article I first got my eyes on was in the Automotive section of the NYT (online edition anyway). I was really interested in the article since I think eschewing our dependence away from fossil fuels is a very smart decision. However, unless I failed to understand some cryptic part, at the end I came away totally baffled by the vehicle specified performance/energy consumption. So to shortly summarize: -ange is of 400 miles but only about 40 run entirely on the battery pack charge, -once done with the first 40 miles then a small 4 cylinder conventional internal combustion engine starts recharging the battery pack using the 12 gallons of gasoline in the tank. If the above is correct then let's say we have 2 possible extreme scenarios and a whole lot in between them. Scenario A: drive in a single session the whole ~400 miles range the vehicle is capable of. This would equal to a 400 miles minus the 40 run on a charged battery pack, therefore the car per se would use 12 gallons to be able to cover the remaining 360 miles. I am not impressed at learning that it would mean using ~ 33 miles/gallon, hardly anything I would consider innovative or energy conscious since there is a number of small 4 cyl vehicle capable of that or even better. Scenario B: short drive (less than 40 miles between recharging stations). this of course promise to be the most economic albeit I have no idea on how much coal got burned to provide 5-7 hours of charging the battery will need. It does not sound to me pollution or fossil fuel sparing will amount to much. Please feel free to rebut to the above consideration I would love to learn more, I realize that at this particular time I may have missed something important. truly, Steveaccord Replies to this message: guy1974 (Sep 16, 2008 6:36 am)
#7 of 24 At what cost? by bigred54 Sep 15, 2008 (7:09 am)
Looks like another pie in the sky that is doom to fail. it makes no difference if you can get 50 or 100 or even 150 miles per gallon if very few people can afford the car. At $40,000.00 + it will fall into the novelty category and GM will be lucky to sell a few thousands- compounding the high cost is the expected short live of the battery pack - about 3 years and the $10,000 it will cost to replace it. Meanwhile Toyota and Honda will churn out sub 20K hybrids that will get 50+ Miles per gallon selling 400,000 units without blinking an eye. Add to that Nissan plug in for under 25K and a slew of Korean hybrids coming in 2012 and you can kiss GM goodbye.
#8 of 24 Re: Article Comments - 2011 Chevy Volt: Will GM Get It Done? (ho [steveaccord] by guy1974 Sep 16, 2008 (6:36 am)
Replying to: steveaccord (Sep 14, 2008 3:45 pm) Steve - it depends on how the electricity is generated. If nuclear or wind/wave/solar is used then the pollution is much less. Also any pollution is centralized at power stations which can be cleasne dup rather than out of individual exhausts spewing out on the streets. I am sure the engine will be made more economical over time. You have to start somewhere. The Prius was not (and is not) perfect at the first generation so don`t be too critical. Electric vehicles do offer hope. I would also think 5-7 hours recharging would burn less energy than 12 gallons of gasoline (and associated transporting and refining costs).
#9 of 24 Why will it sell? by sailorman4 Sep 17, 2008 (10:59 am)
Chevrolet and GM have touted the Volt as the car that will put GM back on the map in terms of automobile profits. For those of you working at GM, I would urge you to update your resume and keep a sharp eye out for another job. Why would anyone in their right mind pay $40,000 for a four passenger car that goes all of 40 miles on an electric charge and costs nearly $40,000. I've owned dozens of cars and for the past year a 2008 Prius. It consistently gets 45 miles to the gallon, holds five passengers, has the benefit of a hatch that when open is similar to many SUVS and can go up to 90 miles an hour? It costs in its most expensive form $28000 dollars. GM is dreaming. The Volt, in my opinion will be a flop. Sailorman29 Replies to this message: bigred54 (Sep 17, 2008 1:15 pm)
#10 of 24 Re: Why will it sell? [sailorman4] by bigred54 Sep 17, 2008 (1:15 pm)
Replying to: sailorman4 (Sep 17, 2008 10:59 am) Honda insight is a Hybrid that gets 50 miles gal. and cost under 20K. 40k is loss leader gor GM! batteries not included!
#11 of 24 On Rationalizing The Volt's Price... by hpmctorque Sep 21, 2008 (8:21 pm)
Heere's an interesting article from the Detroit Free Press: "Chevy Volt's value is as dawn of era BY MARK PHELAN • FREE PRESS COLUMNIST • September 21, 2008 Two recurring strains of criticism surfaced amid all the hoopla over the Chevrolet Volt electric car last week: • It's too expensive. Nobody will buy it, and if anybody does, it'll be rich dilettantes, not the working folks who really need to cut their gasoline bill. • It doesn't go far enough. It's impractical for people who use one car for all their needs. Neither complaint is correct, but the way the misinformation proliferated across the Internet demonstrates how different the Volt is from any car on the road today. You can't judge the Volt based on traditional criteria like sticker price and trunk room. Don't think of it solely as a car. It's a lifestyle, a political view, a fashion statement and the coolest new gadget you can get. If GM gets the Volt right, it's the 1984 Apple Macintosh on wheels, smashing an old paradigm and setting America free. It's Mini Cooper compact cool mated to Prius environmental chic. It will also be a compact car likely to cost around $42,000 when it goes on sale, a premium small car with unique style and performance, like the $46,000 BMW 135i or $44,000 Audi A3. And it may be the only game in town if you want the latest and greatest technology on wheels, a vehicle that says you're smart, involved and want to thumb your noise at Big Oil and the despotic countries that produce it. Why did people stand in line all night to pay $400 for an Apple iPhone last year when other companies literally give mobile phones away? Because it was unique. Because it was the best. That's one reason the Volt's introductory price is immaterial. If the car keeps the promises GM has made -- 40 miles on battery power alone, and the ability to drive unlimited distances by using its onboard generator -- the first year's production will sell out the weekend the Volt goes on sale. The other reason not to fret about the initial price is that it will fall, and it will fall fast. The industrial model and product cycle that apply to the Volt are closer to the fast-paced development of mobile phones and laptop computers than the six-year cycle of most cars. Cost should fall quickly, and it would be very surprising if Volt buyers don't get substantial tax incentives. None of that makes the Volt the people's car, but GM plans to use its powertrain in other models. Concerns about the Volt's cruising range are even less significant than fretting over its sticker price, but they highlight the need for GM to explain the car to buyers. While electricity stored from an outlet provides enough energy to cover at least 40 miles (city or highway driving), the little gasoline-powered generator under the hood will keep the battery charged on longer drives. It's an elegant solution that engineers love, but it will take a while before less technically oriented people figure out they can drive the Volt cross-country all day, just like a conventional car. The Volt is the tip of the spear. If it works, GM plans to rapidly adapt its powertrain for high-volume cars with mass-market prices. It's not a car for everyone, but it's the first step toward a new kind of car for everyone." Replies to this message: nwng (Sep 22, 2008 1:53 pm) crazybaldhead (Feb 24, 2009 10:59 pm) morin2 (Mar 02, 2009 3:28 pm) wlbrown9 (Mar 10, 2009 8:51 am)