Last post on Dec 15, 2008 at 11:18 AM
You are in the Subaru Legacy & Outback
What is this discussion about?
Oct 04, 2008 (8:21 am)
Hi again Ranger,
I think you're comments are right on and I believe the engineers did a good job at Subaru with AWD. My only problem remains the tires. I'm going to do what I can to get the dealer to do something about them before we have a deal - we'll see . .
Thanks for your replies.
Oct 04, 2008 (10:59 am)
The Tires where a bit of a concern because I just don't like Bridgestone.
I purchased a set of Potenza's Years ago for a 90 Ford Escort GT and they where so bad I took the Car back to Pep Boys and had them replaced with BF Goodrich.
Thank God they had a 30 Day test drive deal because they really sucked in the Snow when I lived in Utah.
These new Tires look like they have a better Tread design and they seem to have good grip.
Like I said before, if they don't perform well in the first Snow they won't be on there to see the second and I'll let everyone know it.
#37 of 64 Re: 09 Outback owner [kentuckyranger]
Oct 05, 2008 (5:07 am)
(Regarding AWD torque splits with manual or auto tranny)
I'm from Canada and I was just researching the Subaru Canada site. Hit the link and scroll down to the transmission section...
http://www.subaru.ca/WebPage.aspx?WebPageID=10918&Range=Forester&ModelYear=2009&- - WebSiteID=282
http://www.subaru.ca/WebPage.aspx?WebPageID=10996&Range=Outback&ModelYear=2009&W- - ebSiteID=282
The info for the 4EAT in the Forester shows a 60/40 spit in normal conditions changing to 50/50 as conditions warrant (also I hear 50/50 spit if gear selector is placed in 1st and 2nd).
The info for the 4EAT in the Outback (we know the 5EAT used in the XT Ltd. or the 3.0R Ltd. has the VTD AWD 45/55 split) is not explained on the link but I think it's safe to assume that the AWD is the same as the Forester.
The auto trannies are apparently very advanced such that with all the various sensors working with the computer, it is constantly varying the torque splits depending what the vehicle is doing (slowing down in a turn, up hill climb, stopping, wide open throttle, swirving, etc) making it a proactive system.
We all know the 5 speed manual is a 50/50 split with the centre viscous coupling diff making it a reactive sysytem.
Lastly, I don't think Canada gets a different type of AWD system than USA with the 4EAT right?
#38 of 64 Re: [kentuckyranger]
Oct 05, 2008 (5:44 am)
(RE: winter tires)
Nothing is safer than running 4 true winter tires when the temperature falls below freezing. For the past 8 years I have been using the Nokian Hakkapeliitta (from Finland) family of winter tires. Currently I use the Nokian Hakkapeliitta "2" tire mounted on separate steel wheels (save the nice alloys from the road salt and possible curb ding) and they are awesome in deep snow, hard packed snow, and ice. I have no affiliation with Nokian, just a happy customer.
I saw a report on my local news last winter where some manufacturers were claiming that their tires were true winters when in fact they were not. They say if the price is too cheap chances are "you get what you pay for". Safety is top priorty, no doubt, and a set of good winter tires are a small investment for that. Look for the mountain with the snowflake emblem on the sidewall to distinguish that it is a severe sevice winter tire, not just M+S.
#39 of 64 Re: 09 Outback owner [noey8]
Oct 05, 2008 (7:26 am)
I don't think Canada and the US have different AWD systems but the info you cite is for the Forester; I could find no description of the torque split in the link you provided for the Outback. I have a link with fresh info for the 2009 Outback - please take a look:
Thanks for your reply.
Oct 05, 2008 (10:16 am)
Those are great sites and why after my research I decided on the 09 Outback 2.5i Ltd.
I guess I got the 60/40 split mixed up with a Forester Data Sheet I'd been reading but with the 09 Outback you are correct, the power split changes depending on what the sensors are telling the Computer but for average dry road conditions it's 90/10 which I think is why it gets such good Gas Millage in optimum conditions.
Another reason I went with the Ltd is the limited slip rear end, another big plus in 4X4 setups as well as high performance Cars.
Even with all this technology, the Car is only going to perform well if the Tires are matched to what driving conditions you'll be setting it up for.
I had a 96 Thunderbird with a limited slip Diff and loved the Car, untill the Snow came.
With those "All Season" Good Years it was a disaster. I put 400Lbs of Sand in the Trunk and it still would just spin the Wheels, until I got Studded Snow Tires.
After that I could go anywhere.
That Year Kentucky had it's worst Snow storm in Years and with 2' of Snow on the Ground that Thunderbird never got stuck. (Yes, I took the Sand out)
I'd say the 09 Outback with the limited slip Diff, VDC and right set of Tires will be hard to beat in any weather or Road condition, just don't expect to go up a Muddy Trail on the stock Bridgestone Tires.
The best all Season Tires I ever had where made by Firestone, the Blizzak all season was actually a Snow Tire that was designed to wear down to an all season Tire after the Winter Months.
They are very expensive but if I still lived in a Wintry Climate I'd have them because they are that good.
I had a set of them on a 93 Ford Probe GT. I had to because the Good Year Tires that came on it where worthless in the Snow.
I had an 80Mi commute once a Week and I had to be there, no excuses.
When I was younger I wanted sporty, not Jeepy.
With the Blizzak's on that Probe I was a little 4 Wheel Snowmobile.
If anyone reading this has ever put a set of Blizzak's on a Subaru I'd love to hear how it went.
If I was living farther North I'd get a set for my Outback but I just can't justify the expense because they are expensive and, because of the design, they wear down fast in warm weather and dry conditions.
If you check them out, get ready for some serious Sticker shock.
Noey's idea of having a complete separate set is a very good idea, that's what I did on my Probe.
#41 of 64 Re: preferred system [ateixeira]
Oct 05, 2008 (10:57 am)
I think everyone's getting VDC (Vehicle Dynamics Control) confused with TCS (Traction Control System)
I had a Saturn with TCS and have been driving my 09 Outback with VDC for a little while now and I can tell you there's a huge difference in the 2 systems.
When the Wheels start spinning on a Vehicle equipped with TCS, the Computer cuts the Throttle to stop the spinning.
When the Wheels start to spin on a Vehicle equipped with VDC, the Computer applies the Brakes to the Wheel that's spinning and only cuts the Throttle when it can no longer control Wheel spin witht he Brakes.
When it would get seriously slick out, I'd have to turn off the TCS on the Saturn because of what your Friend went through.
The Saturn would just die on me when the Wheels would spin and it almost got me in a couple of accidents.
(Thank God There's an off Switch)
If you read my Blog:
I took my Outback to a Parking Lot where sealant had been sprayed and it was raining.
This system reacts VERY differently than TCS on very slick Pavement.
It has to be the most intuitive system I've ever seen or experienced on a Car.
Now if you're trying to traverse Icy Roads with either bad Tires or Tires not recommended for Winter driving then you're going to drive the VDC crazy trying to keep your Car under control.
I think the only other 2 manufacturers that come close to this system is Mercedes and Audi and it's based on the system they use on their La'mans Race Cars.
(Not to mention they cost around $80k)
#42 of 64 Re: [kentuckyranger]
Oct 05, 2008 (3:21 pm)
I have a 2001 Forester and my wife has a 2003 Outback. Both have the 5 speed manual trans and the limited slip rear differential. I have a set of Blizzak WS50s on steel wheels for both cars, and usually mount them around mid-end December and run them until around mid-late March. We've gone through some pretty good snow storms with both cars with the Blizzaks. I am extremely impressed with them.
Along with Subaru's AWD, the Blizzaks have made the cars feel pretty much unstoppable in snow. Virtually no wheel spin when starting out from a stop, no sliding around turns and no problems braking or steering. As a matter of fact, I can't recall the ABS ever kicking in while driving in snow. I've owned conventional 4 wheel drive trucks, and the Subarus have worked better in snow, for me, than any of them.
My wife and I have been driving for many years, and we both drive pretty conservatively, especially in inclement weather. We live in south-central New Jersey, and we usually get at least one good storm per winter, and several lesser storms (though last year we got almost nothing).
If you're looking for a dedicated winter tire, I highly recommend the Blizzak WS50.
Oct 05, 2008 (5:34 pm)
As good as the Blizzak's worked on my Probe I knew they had to be awesome on a Subaru.
I remember when I used to run into California over Donner pass, when the Chain laws where in effect they would only allow Vehicles with Blizzak and very few other Tires to proceed without Chaining up.
They call Tires like that Chain rated or something like that.
I'd say a Subaru with Blizzacks would be in stoppable in the Snow.
Thanks for the reply.
#44 of 64 Re: 09 Outback owner [noey8]
Oct 06, 2008 (6:52 am)
I found some more info you may be interested in. It appears neither you nor I were exactly right about the torque split on the 4-speed automatics with VDC. There is another forum - "4WD & AWD systems explained" that goes on and on and on and on, but post #1134 appears to be the definitive answer from Subaru of America.
It basically says there is no default split on these transmissions as there is on the others. It's continuously variable from 90/10 to 50/50 depending on sensor input.