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Wagons Subaru Crew Subaru Legacy & Outback 2009 Outback - AWD systems
64 messages, Last post on Dec 15, 2008 at 11:18 AM
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Replying to: cptplt (Sep 07, 2008 8:25 am) That's good news for people like me who are unsure about using VDC. I was able to confirm yesterday that the 2009's will also have an on/off switch on the dash - whew! Maybe people like you who have VDC have some opinions about whether to use it all the time or to be selective - and if so, when do they use it? I think that I will leave it on most of the time but turn it off when road conditions are obviously bad and require extra care. I prefer not to give up control under these conditions and rely on my own skill from years of experience driving in snow. At these times I'm already driving cautiously and feel I only need VDC when apparently good conditions present a surprise I would not otherwise be ready for. How do others with VDC feel about this and how do you use it?
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Replying to: jim2345 (Sep 07, 2008 10:30 am) |
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Replying to: xwesx (Sep 04, 2008 10:50 am) When it snows I'm taking the wife's Forester, so no thanks! 
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Replying to: jim2345 (Sep 03, 2008 6:48 am) In deep snow, the VDC never really kicked in. In loose gravel and wet roads it will engage momentarily. Where I notice the greatest difference is on ice packed roads, especially while turning or going up an upgrade. The first time it kicked in I was turning on an icy road and had the eerie feeling that the engine had died. The car pulled through the icy turn, slower, but with no loss of traction. The Grand Cherokee that was tailgating me at the time ended up in the ditch. On the models I have owned without the VDC, there would always be some traction loss, but overall would perform well. Sometimes, though, I think I would like a manual OB, especially when descending icy streets which require a stop at the end. I would like to downshift to slow the vehicle. All my cars were shod with all-season radials, not snows.
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Replying to: thallberg (Sep 09, 2008 11:32 am) When you talked about descending icy streets, you really got my attention because this is something I have to do a lot. And it's at times like these that you really want to stay off the brakes. At the end of every ski day, I have to come down the winding mountain roads - often just after or during a flurry where the road surface has gotten covered and then packed by the traffic coming off the mountain. But doesn't your 2003 Outback have a shiftable automatic or does this not work as effectively as a manual transmission in slowing you down on steep down grades? Please reply as engine braking on a steep slope is something I probably cannot determine very well when I take out an automatic for a test drive. Thanks.
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Replying to: jim2345 (Sep 09, 2008 1:13 pm) What I have noticed with the AWD manual is the feeling of being more in control by "playing" the clutch and the brake, if you know what I mean. Probably isn't good on the clutch, but sliding into a busy intersection could be worse. Most of my driving is urban and highway, and the VDC is great for that. If I had a lot of twisting mountain roads, I'd be inclined toward the manual.
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Replying to: thallberg (Sep 10, 2008 10:35 am) The only place I can think that the auto might make a drastic difference is with emergency maneuvers when immediate responsiveness is needed. If the manual driver is not perfectly in tune with the car, it may not be in the right gear at the right time (or even running, if the driver let the engine stall out) to avoid disaster. But, that is a driver consideration....
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Replying to: thallberg (Sep 10, 2008 10:35 am) So the automatic provides reasonable engine braking when descending - good! And I know exactly what you mean about feeling more in control with a manual transmission at times like this and "playing" the clutch and brake - been there! When your knuckles are white, you do what you have to do . . . |
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Replying to: xwesx (Sep 10, 2008 1:45 pm) I know what a difference tires can make and will take a hard look at the OEM tires (I think they are rated M&S rather than all-season but I haven't been to the dealer yet to look at the tread). I have been quick to upgrade in the past when the "newness" has worn off and they stop performing well. Please explain the last paragraph about stalling - I'm not sure I know what you mean. Are you saying that during emergency maneuvers - like when VDC takes away your control of the throttle, the driver with a manual transmission can stall the engine (even though he may be very experienced)?
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Replying to: jim2345 (Sep 11, 2008 7:35 am) Had I the presence of mind to re-gear the car for the situation, I could jet past the oncoming car before it had a chance to reach the shoulder, move further off or on the roadway to avoid its path, or brake more decisively. With an automatic, it will do the re-gearing itself, I just have to work the wheel and pedals. Now, that is my example scenario with a classic manual or auto, and the effects are strictly the result of the driver's actions. I am not sure what affect VDC would have on a manual. Boy, it would sure unsettle me if the scenario you presented were the case, but I suspect there must be some sort of fail-safe in that situation otherwise I doubt the NHTSA would allow the technology on MT vehicles. Sure gets me to wondering, though! In my opinion, the whole point to a manual transmission is driver input/control. The VDC should work with that constraint, not attempt to subvert it. In other words, it should be a co-pilot, not a replacement.  Okay, so tires. Take my word on this, if the car has Bridgestone Pontenza RE-92A tires, don't even bother taking a hard look when it comes to winter driving conditions. Newness or no, they are worthless in snow and mediocre on ice at best. I drove my '07 on these tires in snow/ice right off the lot, and it was... interesting. I had always before used all-seasons (the last tires on my '96 were Goodyear TripleTreads), and these were downright awful tires. On my '08, I encountered snow for the first time at about 3500 miles, and while I did fine for the 4000 miles I drove on snow/ice, it sure was tricky at times. There were a couple times I could not make it up my driveway after a light snowfall (4-5"), and that NEVER happened in my '96 Subaru (again, with more effective all-season tires), even with a foot or more of snowfall. The one good thing about them? It was easy and rewarding to toss the car around an icy surface. Not sure that is a very good reason to keep them, though. They are okay on dry or wet surfaces, at least to my budget-conscious mind.
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