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Turbo or No Turbo?

72 messages,  Last post on Oct 11, 2008 at 6:31 AM

You are in the Subaru Forester Forum.

What is this discussion about? Subaru Forester, Wagon

Messages Page 5 of 8

#32 of 72 Re: Good and bad on the XT turbo for '09 [p0926] by aatherton

Sep 04, 2008 (1:45 pm)

Replying to: p0926 (Aug 24, 2008 8:39 pm)
"... FYI, the turbo on my 04 XT is still going strong at 66k miles.
 
That is good.
 
"Recently, the turbocharger on my Forester scorched a bearing due to an oil seal that let loose. The dealer wanted $2380 for a stock turbocharger plus installation of $400. The car has 70000 miles and is out of warranty."
paisan, "subaru transmission problems" #6, 7 May 2007 8:17 pm
 
"... I take it to my mechanic.....TURBO IS BLOWN!!!!!! The car only has 135,000 KM's on it! I always ensured I allowed the turbo to spool down after driving it. The oil was changed every 5,000 KM's. The fix is gonna cost me between $3-4,000."
http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f88/new-owner-turbo-blown-31258/

#33 of 72 Re: Good and bad on the XT turbo for '09 [aatherton] by p0926

Sep 04, 2008 (2:18 pm)

Replying to: aatherton (Sep 04, 2008 1:45 pm)
So you only found two instances of failed turbos out of how many of thousands of units sold? If you're intent was to imply that the turbo isn't reliable, I don't think you made a very convincing argument
 
And even with the two examples you gave:
 
a. The first was bought used so there's no telling how it was driven. One of the replies to that post says it best:
 
"you buy a used car with that amount of mile's and then you complain because the turbo went out? did you expect the car to go a million miles with out ever having to replace a major part?"
 
b. With the 2nd example, I can't tell for sure but since the poster was looking to upgrade his turbo with one that provides more HP, I'm guessing that he probably drove it pretty "spiritedly".
 
Of course Subaru's aren't perfect (no manufacturer is) so yes, there's always the potential that a turbo will fail but then so might the head gaskets or any number of other expensive to repair items.
 
-Frank

#34 of 72 Re: Good and bad on the XT turbo for '09 [p0926] by paisan

Sep 04, 2008 (7:27 pm)

Replying to: p0926 (Sep 04, 2008 2:18 pm)
Let's see, you can blow a radiator, and warp the head from overheating on any car. The same could have been said about the "expensive" fuel injectors, "I never had this problem with my good old Holley Carbs", etc.
 
As for maintenance, if you read the specs, the "severe" interval for the NA cars is 3,000 miles as well, so the oil changes are probably not even an extra cost. If you drive the car hard, sit in traffic, take short trips, etc. Those are all considered 3k changes even on the NA cars.
 
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host

#35 of 72 Re: 2009 2.5X Premium Forester [p0926] by ateixeira

Sep 05, 2008 (1:51 pm)

Replying to: p0926 (Sep 04, 2008 12:40 pm)
22mpg is driving pretty lightly, no?
 
Why get a turbo, then?
 
For insurance, are you sure you don't pay more for a performance model? Check again, a Legacy GT costs a lot more to insure than a Legacy L (when I was quoted in 2002). I'm pretty positive you'd see a difference to insure a Forester turbo vs. a non-turbo.
 
I didn't actually get a quote, but I would be SHOCKED if the turbo engine didn't increase your insurance premiums.
 
As for resale, you looked at 2004s, which are only 4 years old. After 8 years the resale advantage will be a lot smaller. Valid point, but we're talking maybe $500 extra in resale value, not $1200. Plus it's harder to sell a turbo that requires premium fuel, fewer buyers would be interested.
 
I'm sure the actual number is somewhere between mine and yours. Closer to mine.

#36 of 72 Re: 2009 2.5X Premium Forester [ateixeira] by bears2

Sep 05, 2008 (2:28 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Sep 05, 2008 1:51 pm)
I've just finished shopping around for insurance on my new XT. Yes, buying a turbo does increase your premium...but not very much. It ends up being a few dollars per month. And Subaru extended service plans do charge more for turbo's (I think it's about $200-$400 depending on length of the plan). I decided to buy the plan because I don't even want to worry about costly turbo repairs or repairs to any other part of the car.
 
This has been an interesting thread. I think, ultimately, the decision between turbo and non-turbo has to come down to the value you place on power and acceleration, your own particular situation (I bought my turbo for mountain driving) and your financial situation. Even 7-8K over an 8 year period is considered pocket change to a lot of people...and, a lot of money to a lot of people, like me!! I have to say that I love my turbo and I've made peace with the financial hit. I wish I could say the same for my wife! I think there is some value to feeling that rush of 224 horsepower.

#37 of 72 Re: 2009 2.5X Premium Forester [bears2] by ateixeira

Sep 05, 2008 (3:09 pm)

Replying to: bears2 (Sep 05, 2008 2:28 pm)
It's not just cost - I like the extra range, too.
 
I was happy the 2009s got a 16.9 gallon tank because it meant I could drive an extra 25 miles per tank.
 
Basically you delay having to get gas for a couple of days, every tankful.

#38 of 72 Re: 2009 2.5X Premium Forester [ateixeira] by p0926

Sep 05, 2008 (10:04 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Sep 05, 2008 1:51 pm)
22mpg is driving pretty lightly, no?
 
Not really. We obviously don't do jack rabbit starts away from every light but do regularly take advantage of the turbo.
 
I didn't actually get a quote, but I would be SHOCKED if the turbo engine didn't increase your insurance premiums.
 
When I traded my 01 Forester for the 04 the premium only went up marginally and was in line with the difference in replacement cost. Why do you think the turbo should cost more? Maybe in a sports car there will be a premium but Forester owners aren't likely to be drag racing (although if they did they'd be pretty competitive)
 
As for resale, you looked at 2004s, which are only 4 years old.
 
Well duh! 04 was the first year the turbo was offered so I couldn't go back any further
 
Plus it's harder to sell a turbo that requires premium fuel, fewer buyers would be interested.
 
Quite possibly true but don't you think the resale/trade-in formulas already take that into account?
 
I'm sure the actual number is somewhere between mine and yours. Closer to mine
 
Hmm... I'm still pretty comfortable that my number is pretty accurate.
 
Face it Juice, you're just trying to rationalize reasons not to buy the XT. Rather than try and convince yourself that it costs a lot more, you should stick to the tried and true arguments that the non-turbo gets better gas mileage (it does), has perfectly acceptable acceleration (it does) and will keep your wife from getting too many speeding tickets (undoubtedly true)
 
-Frank
 
P.S. If you're nice, maybe I'll let you test drive my 5.3 sec 0-60 350Z killer when I move to DC next April

#39 of 72 Re: 2009 2.5X Premium Forester [ateixeira] by bigfrank3

Sep 06, 2008 (9:52 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Sep 05, 2008 1:51 pm)
Here in Massachusetts insurance cost is based on replacement value. With identical insurance my wife's 05 Bean costs a bit more to insure than my 06 Premium, even though with the options I have added the only real difference between the vehicles is her leather.
 
If both cars got stolen or totaled she would get more money from the ins. company even though it is a year older, so she pays more.

#40 of 72 Re: Good and bad on the XT turbo for '09 [p0926] by aatherton

Sep 07, 2008 (3:06 pm)

Replying to: p0926 (Sep 04, 2008 2:18 pm)
"... So you only found two instances of failed turbos out of how many of thousands of units sold? "
Yes, that is all that I found out of thousands.

#41 of 72 Re: Good and bad on the XT turbo for '09 [paisan] by aatherton

Sep 07, 2008 (3:17 pm)

Replying to: paisan (Sep 04, 2008 7:27 pm)
"... As for maintenance, if you read the specs, the "severe" interval for the NA cars is 3,000 miles as well, so the oil changes are probably not even an extra cost. If you drive the car hard, sit in traffic, take short trips, etc. Those are all considered 3k changes even on the NA cars. "
 
So under the same driving conditions, just maintain your turbo like an NA and you should do fine, right?
 
"... Caring for Subaru Turbocharged Engines ... The following information updates factory recommendations for the care and maintenance of new Subaru turbocharged vehicles... Due to heat generated by the turbocharger and carbon deposits contained in exhaust gas, the oil in a turbocharged engine will deteriorate faster than the oil in a naturally aspirated engine. Therefore, special care should be taken to use proper grade oil and to monitor oil deterioration. Under normal driving conditions, the recommended oil and oil filter change
interval for turbo vehicles is every 3,750 miles or four months, whichever comes
first. However, for vehicles driven in conditions beyond normal, such as racing
conditions, the oil and oil filter may require more frequent changing... Any driving where the engine speed is kept high – either by using lower gears at higher speeds or using engine braking – is considered racing-type driving. A “track day” or autocross event requires an oil and oil filter change immediately before and immediately after the event.... Carbon deposits produced by a turbocharged engine can accumulate at the bottom of the oil pan. When changing the oil, always drain the oil through the oil drain plug hole on the oil pan..."
http://www.drive.subaru.com/Sum08/Sum08_Turbo.htm

Messages Page 5 of 8

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