Last post on Dec 04, 2013 at 10:22 AM
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Car Buying, Biodiesel, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Coupe, Hatchback, SUV
#7973 of 11669 Re: another reason why we don't get (many) diesels [ateixeira]
Feb 07, 2013 (2:20 pm)
All you need, though, is for one manufacturer to rebel and do it, and get that competitive advantage. Then the rest would have to join in."...
To name just one example, VW has been doing the TDI gig for INXS of a decade (actually decades) . Decades later, GM "rebels" with a Cruze TDI ?
#7974 of 11669 Re: - [dudleyr]
Feb 07, 2013 (2:40 pm)
They don't even offer the diesel with a manual? Ridiculous.
Saves me the trouble of even looking, I suppose! Couple that with the FE estimates and the price premium (for both the car and its fuel source) and I'm not sure why anyone would even consider it.
#7975 of 11669 Re: another reason why we don't get (many) diesels [ruking1]
Feb 07, 2013 (3:29 pm)
I meant in the context of pickups....very, very different segment.
Work trucks need torque. They're driven tons of miles and could lower operating costs, be more durable, etc.
I think the Big 3 are afraid. If you sell a light duty pickup diesel they may no longer sell as many HD pickups, and that could eat in to profits ($8 to $10k per truck by some estimates).
Feb 07, 2013 (3:30 pm)
And still no hatch or wagon, looks like sedan only.
Lost me, too.
#7977 of 11669 Re: another reason why we don't get (many) diesels [ateixeira]
Feb 07, 2013 (10:52 pm)
..."I meant in the context of pickups....very, very different segment. "...
I think you should could have said that and made the differentiation up front. Magic mind reading and unicorns are not my thing. I think you have read more than once/ heard me say that a diesel light (light) truck is an absolute no brainer and for many reasons.
To state the obvious, obviously: once it was obvious that you said what you meant, but didn't say before. To state the other obvious thing, most American light trucks have been, are and will remain GASSERS.
I think that applies to diesel passenger vehicles in general. The back drop of course is even as the powers that be press for less RUG/PUG fuel use, they are hurting BIG time from the lack of revenue, they themselves advocate fiercely, albeit indirectly. Keep in mind that RUG/PUG/ D2 prices are at historical highs which punishes the middle class, as an "EVERYMAN" tax. that our current 2nd term Potus has so vociferously claims to defend while he deftly oppresses them with an "everyman" tax.. Indeed the hybrids and plug in electrical will have to go up a minimum of 4 x's greater that the already higher price per mile driven, and acquisition cost, it costs now to not even break even. CA tiered KWH is already $.29 per. While it is more costly per mile driven than RUG/PUG it is not near enough !!! The Volt is essentially a 12 to 15k gasser that in the plug in electric/hybrid forms costs 40,000. The other catch 22 is most sane folks will not buy one until prices and operating costs go ... down. Be careful what you wish for.
#7978 of 11669 Re: - [xwesx]
Feb 08, 2013 (6:47 am)
...'They don't even offer the diesel with a manual? Ridiculous. "...
Upshot: The current TDI's with the current 6 speed manual transmission is probably( even after a 100 years) (one of) the best transmission( TDI engine) combinations.
Actually this (above quote) is VERY logical to (a minority of ) folks, involved with TDI's, albeit those who have chosen 5/6 speed M/T's in a TDI. It is obvious that there are oems that offer TDI's only in A/T. So if 257.5 M are in the passenger vehicle fleet and 5% are diesels (12.875 M) AND of that minority 20% ARE 5/6 speed M/T's then we are referring to LESS THAN 2.575 M TDI owners with 5/6 speeds.
It (the quoted sentiment) might NOT be so logical to gasser owners with A/T's, which happen to be the majority of passenger car owners. The gasser engines are 95% +. The A/T transmissions are 80% +. My swag of TDI'ers that opt for M/T's ( 1.55 M) are a minority within a further minority app 20% of the three percent (7.725 M) of passenger car diesels. ( 257,5 M ) IF over all M/T statistics are true, i.e. 20% of the over all passenger vehicle fleet (51.5 M) have M/T's,
I think the oems are in a quandary. They can not openly admit that the slush box days (of old) are numbered. However, the opaqueness has a huge number of peep holes. . A/T development is now lumpy at best. It might not be obvious that if one invests in the wrong "horse" technology, that wronge choice can have very negative consequences. So for example, no less a consumer entity than CR has come out saying turbo charged small engine gassers are not the panacea. One broad brush issue is it puts this whole (solution effort) at mortal risk. I do not think this "pronouncement" has really sunk in at the consumer level. Certainly the oems are getting BLASTED with the consequences of this. Another (WSJ) has come out saying a lot of gasser cars don't even come close to their mpg EPA ratings, 2004 Toyota Prius being the most notable example. A little know component CVT, of that component is hardly ever mentioned, in that issue.
So for another A/T example if an oem wants to stay with a so called slush box, he/she will have to implement a wider range 8 SPEED A/T with D- Drive/ S-Sport with the shiftable 8 speed "sequential shift gate". I am sure none of the oems likes the way increased costs. The driver here of course is the progressively higher fuel (mpg) standards.
So for my extremely small .02 cents, which in the over all scheme of things is probably a minority position within a minority position I would not be a buyer of a gasser, hybrid, plug in, CVT, slush box (old) CVT hybrid Tesla transmission.
#7979 of 11669 Re: another reason why we don't get (many) diesels [ruking1]
Feb 08, 2013 (6:17 am)
You jumped in on a conversation I was having with someone else, that's what happens.
#7980 of 11669 Re: another reason why we don't get (many) diesels [ateixeira]
Feb 08, 2013 (6:23 am)
That is your issue, not mine ! Thank you very much.
#7981 of 11669 Re: another reason why we don't get (many) diesels [ruking1]
Feb 08, 2013 (7:05 am)
LOL at the politicizing, I am sure Daddy's Wallet and Ebenezer would have gas down to $1...get over it, they lost fair and square. I am still paying a bit less for PUG than I did in the summer of 08...and I don't feel oppressed, I choose what I drive and where I live.
The Orwellians on both sides are eventually going to move to a usage tax, per mile - just wait.
#7982 of 11669 Re: another reason why we don't get (many) diesels [fintail]
Feb 08, 2013 (7:31 am)
Too funny !! The ones doing the politicizing are the politico's and their spending proclivities!! I think you are saying its good not to be middle class. How elitist is that? Obummer probably thinks that also $435,000 per year with the perks of a Saudi King/Prince/harem. When he leaves the POTUS position, he will undoubtedly start to make the REALLY BIG bucks.
Indeed you are making the argument for me, the cost per mile driven is locked step scheduled to go UP.