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Automotive News & Views What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
1503 messages, Last post on Nov 14, 2009 at 1:11 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: gregg_vw (Jan 07, 2009 9:08 am) |
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 06, 2009 8:46 pm) Thanks for your response. Here's some follow up questions: Doesn't diesel fuel come first in the refining process. Doesn't it take another step in the refining process to obtain our gasoline? If so, why is diesel more expensive? If 80% of Europe's passenger cars are diesels doesn't that indicate that diesel is pretty efficient? Those folks pay huge taxes on their fuel so they are hyper sensitive to price. Is there still an environmental downside to diesel that I'm missing? Bob
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Replying to: bobny57 (Jan 07, 2009 12:19 pm) And even though diesel cars have not taken off here, we still have plenty of pickups, trucks and buses using it. Not only that, but diesel cars have taken off and taken over in Europe and Asia. Thus there are other buyers clammering for the insufficient diesel fuel that is made in this country (relatively speaking). On top of that, the fuel tax structure in this country (unlike other countries where diesel has a clear tax advantage over gasoline) is biased toward gasoline.
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Replying to: gregg_vw (Jan 07, 2009 1:19 pm) While on a trip to the mountains. We ran into a couple from British Columbia. They were driving a Mercedes B200. The guy told me it is the best car he has ever owned. It was a nice rig. Not available in the USA of course. With the diesel engine in the UK it is rated 62.8 MPG highway, that being 52.3 MPG US. You have to ask yourself if our EPA and CARB are really concerned about fossil fuel usage. If so why do they not allow so many great small cars that get super mileage. For you Mini-Cooper diesel fans. The UK version gets 80 MPG highway. That would be a lousy 67 MPG on our diesel in the US.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 07, 2009 2:23 pm) It is hard to be less dependent on "foreign" oil, when we knowingly and willingly continue to ....and, and, and.... IMPORT MORE FOREIGN oil  I just got off a second test drive of the new 2009 BMW 335 D TWIN turbo diesel with 425 # ft of (monster) torque . While it DOES get 36 mpg, which is more than most folks get with the (gasser) Honda Civic economy leader, it is still a fuel guzzler compared to the pantheon of available European diesel models (as per Gagrice's above post). Still, I'd love to run this twin turbo beast in the Rocky Mountains  4000 to 7000 ft altitude and above WOW !! It is a stormer at sea level. As most folks will attest 425 # ft of torque exceeds MANY so called super car metrics!!! ??? Pretty heady stuff for a 3 series BMW !!! The MB 320/350 diesel has a "MERE" 369 # ft of torque as I remember. So it is easy to conclude that 10-20 miles per gal is not only desireable, it is written into the current laws. Certainly the UAW wrote life time contracts around it. It is important enough to receive Congressional bail out monies.
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Replying to: ruking1 (Jan 07, 2009 2:48 pm)  No, seriously. Turbo diesels are great for daily driving. Honestly 95% of the time, other than a freeway on ramp for a few seconds before the light at the end or the slow guy in the lane you have to merge into ruins your fun, people are doing 10-40mph quick speed changes. You don't have the room to wind the car up, nor do you have the speed limits that allow it. Torque is a huge thing in such a situation as long as the vehicle isn't geared like a tractor. That BMW, btw - yes, it pulls like its rear end is on fire. Immediate power with a sense of extreme urgency at pretty much any speed. Gong 25mph and want to go 45? Done. Already wound up and ready to push you in your seat like a typical 911 used to do. Not quite as quickly, mind you, but 25-45mph in 2-3 seconds is quite fast enough for most people's needs. No whining, no down shifting like crazy. It just happens. Like a big V8 in the 70s. Remember them? 120-140HP but wicked torque curves. They weren't very quick, but man they felt like you were really driving a car and not some tin can.
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Replying to: plekto (Jan 08, 2009 12:06 am) That is what I am talking about. I love driving the back highways in San Diego and Southern CA. Up and down and with hairpins and lots of turns. Aside from an old 1978 Porsche 911 my Passat TDI was the most fun to drive those roads. Problem is when I get to the desert and want to go down a sandy wash, it is too low to the ground. In search of the perfect vehicle. I am afraid if I go test drive the new X5 35d I will be compelled to plunk down more cash than I really should. I have talked to half a dozen people that own the X5. They all say it is the best handling SUV on the market. Not many cars handle better. The only complaint is the V6 is somewhat under powered. The diesel X5 takes care of that with 200 more ft lbs of torque than the V6 and quicker to 60 MPH than the V8. I will keep you all posted when I take one for a spin. |
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Replying to: steve_ (Jan 06, 2009 8:24 am) Current prices in my locality are : Regular Unleaded Petrol : £0.849 per litre (RUG) Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel : £0.959 per litre (ULSD) If my math is correct that equates to, (at current £/$ exrate) : RUG : $4.93 per US Gall ULSD : $5,57 per US Gall That's close on a 13% differential. Some parts of EU have ULSD marginally cheaper than RUG but most are dearer, (AFAIK), it's a tax thing. Yes, it hurts but it's not difficult to see why diesels are so popular - just on fuel cost per mile : Examples, all figure are "Combined" mpg for Imp Galls : Subaru Legacy : 2.0R = 32.8 vs 2.0TD = 48.7 Volvo C30 : 2.0 = 38.2 vs 2.0D = 49.6 but 1.6D = 57.6 Toyota Yaris : 1.3 VVT = 47.1 vs 1.4D = 62.8 BMW : 335i = 31.0 vs 335D (Auto) = 42.2 I've tried to match like-for-like as closely as possible. In all examples, the gassers are listed first, (but you'll have figured that out). |
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Replying to: alltorque (Jan 09, 2009 11:59 am) Here is an interesting issue being discussed in the US. Since the price is so "low" there is FED Congressional as well as State Congressional discussion on raising the fuel tax up to 1.00 per gal  So given 50 mpg vs 22 mpg (defacto fleet mpg) that is .02 cents vs .04545 cents per gal. ) the taxation will be 227% higher on the defacto fleet mpg average!?
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Replying to: alltorque (Jan 09, 2009 11:59 am)
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