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Automotive News & Views What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
1503 messages, Last post on Nov 14, 2009 at 1:11 PM
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Replying to: nippononly (Jan 05, 2009 7:32 pm) Don't bet the farm on my math skills though. 
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 05, 2009 7:21 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 05, 2009 7:21 pm) **** Well, that's exactly the problem with gasoline engines. To develop maximum HP, they need to scream, as maximum torque isn't produced until you're approaching red line. JUst the nature of the beast. Diesels, OTOH, have loads more torque so they can get away with lower RPMs and shift a lot less often. Torque is huge in passing times and roll-on acceleration as well. BTW, Fifth Gear(U.K. auto show) recently tested several cars and the closest they could get, even flogging the cars hard, was still 20% slower than the listed 0-60 times! They couldn't even get the Ariel Atom under 4 seconds, despite slamming the clutch hard and wringing the hell out of it. The Corvette, for instance, is designed to withstand 100 full throttle 0-60 launches before the engine and transmission break. Most cars are closer to half that many. Nobody sane drives like that except for auto testers and people doing drag racing. So 0-60 times are often twice as fast as listed in actual traffic. This is another advantage to torque over horsepower. Since the cars all don't GO 0-60 in under 10-15 seconds in actual traffic, smoothness, lack of shifting, and the feeling of how hard the engine pulls you along matter far more. Of course, I'm kind of preaching to the choir here. Heh. Modern diesels completely destroy gasoline powered designs of most vehicles other than the top-end cars - mostly extreme sport sedans and exotics and the like, which are kind moot in actual real life driving. (ie - Porsche is great, but you hit 65mph in 2nd or 3rd gear and then your fun is over)
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Replying to: plekto (Jan 05, 2009 9:35 pm) It would be nice to see more emphasis placed on torque instead of 0 to 60 in the car reviews.
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Replying to: nippononly (Jan 05, 2009 7:32 pm)
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jan 05, 2009 7:58 pm) The Jetta TDI has exceeded any of my projections and expectations. I know that Jetta's (gassers) and for sure BMW gassers drop like boulders in the depreciation department. The TDI for much of its early life could sell for more than I paid. The so called premium  the time if I remember correctly was app 246. However in the Jetta's case (according to Edmunds.com)the TDI 6 years old is worth a min of 3,300 more than a like model/mileage/condition 1.8T.
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Replying to: ruking1 (Jan 05, 2009 10:11 pm)
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Replying to: nippononly (Jan 05, 2009 10:33 pm) |
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jan 05, 2009 7:58 pm) Over here, in Europe, the diesel versions of BMW saloons, (sedans), are the preferred options. real-world performance is much the same; particularly mid-range acceleration, (and they'll more than keep up with any traffic flows), fuel economy is better, the drive is less frenetic, (higher torque will pull longer gear ratios for fewer changes), and resale values hold up far better, (even outweighing the slightly higher new premium). The M3 and M5 gassers are, of course, still purchased for their outright performance and "showoffability".  (as are the Audi RS4's and RS6's). Situation is much the same with other marques also, where there are comparable gasser and diesel versions available. Indeed, the factors given above put me into the driving seat of a Volvo S60 D5 rather than its T5 stable mate. Volvo has obviously now recognised this and the current S60 is only available with 2.0T/178bhp/177lbft gasser or 2.4D/163bhp/251lbft or D5/185bhp/295lbft diesels. The biggest sellers in the Volvo XC90, Audi Q7 and even the BMW 6-series and Audi A6's and A8's are the diesel variants, (from my observations, at least). There again, Europe has had diesels for a long time, together with ULSD and high fuel prices, (i.e. tax loading). In the real world a diesel saloon is far from being an odd duck, whatever the marque...................but if you can't try 'em & buy 'em they must seem like an odd concept.
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