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Automotive News & Views What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
1503 messages, Last post on Nov 14, 2009 at 1:11 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jan 04, 2009 4:39 pm)  Some of the proplem is epa I dont think people know that when mpg regulation is stablished it is based on colective of vehicles not on A vehicle. Get this Ford built a Paint department in Loran Ohio and never used it so when they do there pollution standered they add it to the average whitch is zero so there partical numbers are lower HMMMM!! Ford has a diesel motor in Europe that get I think 50 plus mpg Yes old motors nocked like hell.But this new motor is quiet  . There are more then 2 dozen tankers off the gulf coast because there is a glutten of oil at the refinerese. If you noticed when the price of gas was way up the price of motor oil at you're local auto zone and other places only went up a few pennies HMMM?? Also a diesel motor will last 2-3 hundred miles gas motor will last only 150. People with vehicles that better then that never drove over 45mph
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Replying to: yankabilly (Jan 04, 2009 5:05 pm) The Ford Ranger diesels are ancient history, and anyway, they weren't American engines. Perkins and Mitsubishi, from the 1980s. A compact diesel pickup isn't a bad idea actually.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jan 04, 2009 4:39 pm) I beg to differ. Apart from the anti-car, AKA Prius, there isn't a gas-powered car on the market that will average better than 40 mpg. We shouldn't judge all diesels by the unimpressive VW model - if automakers tried just a little to excel in diesel offerings, they could blow away all gas-powered cars except hybrids on the fuel economy front, and for about the same price premium as a hybrid car. But they haven't, and with the Japanese fading back out of the diesel picture in recent months they probably won't, given that the consumer's first thought is going to be for the current price of diesel when they go to buy the car. As it has been for much of the year, diesel is still WELL above regular unleaded in price in my area. |
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jan 04, 2009 11:25 am) Let's face it---American do not, nor have they ever, liked small cheap diesel cars. They barely tolerate diesel Benzes. **** The real problem is that when you mix capitalism, government, and commodities, you don't get the most efficient outcome. You get the most profitable for the least amount of money spent. And the public basically has to buy what you make, thanks to the government only allowing certain cars into the U.S. It's a captive market. In such situations, free market idealism and theory goes right into the dumpster along with idiocy like the Chicago school of economic theory and supply and demand. Because government and greed always makes it all work very differently than in a classroom or in a research paper. Usually to the public's detriment as we've seen with this bailout. We need cars that will help us get out of this mess. The problem is that these same cars are the least likely to be made, because the auto makers aren't in the business of building cheap, reliable, and affordable cars.(I'm talking 100mpg, hardly ever breaks, and under $10K). They are in the business of making their shareholders wealthy and keeping their stock prices high. I think the solution will either come from new players in the industry who have a different agenda, or from companies that pretty much only do diesel and other technologies. (VW and a few others, for instance) The D3? Don't bother. Just move on and look elsewhere. |
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jan 04, 2009 7:02 pm) The only thing I am concerned is that some dumm  $$ is going to use a 5th wheel camper behind it when they should have been using a f-350 see to many trucks that way. They are over there weight limit and DOT cops only pulls over company trucks not the mom and pop  who should not be pulling the item behind them. Get this!! seen a guy pulling a pontuine party boat with a minni van not made for that little white sticker on drivers door tells you what you're total weight is that includes the people and materials you are carrying not just what you are towing |
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jan 04, 2009 7:02 pm) Really? Not Mazda? |
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jan 04, 2009 4:52 pm) So in that sense, the Big 4 have and continue to misread and manipulate operative market forces. I think it is intimitating at whatever levels to the big four that diesel SUV's (not theirs) are capable right now of getting the forward looking 2012 35 mpg literally YESTERDAY. They literally spend the moneys on "useless" additional accessories, sheet metal changes, and redesign after poor initial design rather than confront head on the higher mileage issues. They suffer from unreliability from making things too complicated, so what do they propose to do? Make it even MORE complicated, ie, hybrids, untried battery packs, etc. Indeed I am surprised the circular argument you present is one that you don't see! I also think you are marginally acknowleding the points !! So for example, if I buy a gasser American car, even though I want say a turbo diesel model American car, it is an absolute no brainer to interpret my actions as: see, the American public (1 each- me) does NOT want a diesel, therefore that is why we don't make diesels. So if I REALLY want an American diesel, the best thing to do is NOT to buy American, till they actually have a turbo diesel model. The problem of course has been the big four volume/profit wise have been so out of touch with the American buying public and for a very long time, and it SHOWS !!!! (in my case out of touch for a min of 39 years) Of course they REALLY know the answer (in the bowls of the organization), which is why they have banned diesel cars Euro and Asian, etc. Of course it takes a 100 M plant, VW Tennessee USA, i.e., when the VW builds diesel models on our sources to bring it to the fore.
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Replying to: ruking1 (Jan 05, 2009 8:16 am) Of course they REALLY know the answers (in the bowls of the organization). One spin off is the logistical system is they have banned diesel cars Euro and Asian, etc. Of course it probably takes a $ 100 M plant, VW Tennessee USA, i.e., when VW will build diesel models on our shores to bring turbo diesel cars to the fore. On the other hand, they have (for literally decades) and probably will continue to charge the American public a 5,000 dollar mid sized truck premium on top of already 15,000 dollar profit for a heavy duty turbo diesel |
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Replying to: ruking1 (Jan 05, 2009 8:16 am) My point about gas cars being the equivalent of diesel cars takes into account the unfortunate reality that in my part of California, diesel fuel is going to cost you .60 cents more a gallon than regular gas. Buy a diesel, pay a penalty. So you can forget about diesels becoming popular in the northern half of California in the year 2009 unless something changes radically in the oil market. As for hybrids, you are correct again that they are as complex and expensive as diesels to build, if not indeed more so---but Toyota pulled off a great PR coup, even if they didn't make much money on each hybrid. They look like visionaries, "greens", technical leaders, and an automaker that can make a car that is dead reliable. Try pinning those labels on the Big 3 with any credibility. Not going to happen. It also won't happen by introducing diesel cars, as they are not perceived by the American public as a new technology or a mainstream solution. Americans have "embraced" hybrids but I suspect they will just "sniff around" new diesel cars, like they have in the past.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jan 05, 2009 8:55 am) invoice !!!! Secondly, your clarifications/explanations, when you point to the objective examples makes sense, or has come to the fore. To the extent that it represents a "majority" opinion indicates again the LACK of seriousness about the foreign oil dependency issue. So if they were "serious" they would for example, make diesel .60 cents CHEAPER than RUG. Hopefully the reasoning would be obvious. The reasoning/s to the logistics system/s is SO obvious and is actually part of the reasoning to make it .60 cents MORE !!!!  As an aside, as you probably know, the American public is already charged an extra .50 cents to 1 per gal on RUG to PUG (tax credits, depreciation, special dispensations, etc.) to EXPORT US made D2 for the world wide markets !!!???? YUP you can tell we are serious  about cutting foreign oil importation. The operative term for another example given diesels 20-40% fuel use efficiency over RUG to PUG might be: Why use less, when you can use more, and talk about using less. Its the Hollywood, LA LA land way !!!
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