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Automotive News & Views What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
1503 messages, Last post on Nov 14, 2009 at 1:11 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 16, 2009 7:05 am) Yet on the other hand, if indeed Civic's/Corolla's fulfill ones needs, they make it economically (in the US markets' case, AND PHYSICALLY) impossible to go from say 38-42 mpg (which I understand is GREAT) to 56 to 60 mpg with one simple option:... turbo DIESEL. |
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Replying to: ruking1 (Jul 16, 2009 6:39 am) Trying to find the actual old style EPA numbers for current cars is a PITA. Andre sent me a link to a website that had the numbers in a raw form that could be opened in notepad or converted to excel but I don't remember what site that was off the top of my head. Those numbers are the numbers the IRS used to figure out those tax credits for high mileage clean diesel and hybrid vehicles. I just found it funny all of the various pundits and/or industry people who said that these new mileage targets would be tough to meet. I found it even funnier when people on the extremist side started to freak out and call this the end of cars as we know it cause no car that exists today will hit those targets. Those insider people were either stupid or just being dishonest cause the new targets are only a small improvement over the old CAFE targets. The average person doesn't know that though. They just the current EPA numbers and the huge difference between them and the new CAFE targets. Dependign on where you fall in the spectrum the reaction goes from OMG the end of the car is here the envirowackos have won NOOOOOOOOOOO    To yeah we will finally get cars with good mielage and kill off most of those big gaz guzzlers that can't ever hit this target.   The reality is that the change while significant is pretty minor.
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Replying to: british_rover (Jul 16, 2009 7:38 am) I do not think it a stretch then, that we both agree !!?? Even if we don't, the big four will just get an exemption and say 27/28 mpg in accordance with the Oui Gi board math (or whatever is the litmus test du jour) To wit, the recent change to the 35 year old +plus EPA mph tests which blatantly favor Prius Hybrids. As most of us know, the Prius FAILED to even come close to the OEM's posted EPA claims of 60 city/50 highway !!! When you combine this with the fact that NONE of the big four has announced the vehicles that will take the new "PROFIT" work horse roles of the SUV's & pick up trucks of the "old order," SOS/DD is pre ordained !!!
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Is anyone here concerned that if diesels DO take off in big numbers, the price of diesel will shoot up because of a constrained supply?
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Replying to: ruking1 (Jul 16, 2009 7:53 am) The new EPA test punishes diesels by about 18 percent. If you spend enough time searching through the various PDFs on fueleconomy.gov you can eventually find that the EPA admits that diesels are at least knocked down an average 18% overall. The new EPA test is very stupid. I could beat the pre-2008 EPA numbers by 10-15% on every car I ever drove so I slaughter the current EPA numbers.
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Replying to: nippononly (Jul 16, 2009 11:54 am) |
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Replying to: british_rover (Jul 16, 2009 12:27 pm) They would love everyone to believe it is a technological miracle, when really it is the old three cup, where is the PEA trick. So what might possibly happen 1. the old standard for the other than hybrid cars 2.the new standard for hybrid cars. 3. light trucks have been on their own standards for decades anyway. All that seems to matter is the APPEARANCE of high/highest EPA rating!!?? (this of course as already been demonstrated)  All they need do is to say this is vital to the economic security of the USA (ah ...gee..., the USA owns 63% of these entities??????? And the UAW is a LARGE minority stake holder???? AND can you spell exemption !!!!!??? And really diesels have never been a serious part of the public discussion, other than the wig bigs vilifiying it!!! So for example, 50% of my cars EXCEED the 2016 35.5 mpg . Two will have for 13 years. Another for 7 years. Another exceeds the defacto 2016 standards and its a SPORTS car. The two that don't should be ready for smog exemption by that date. |
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Replying to: jpeters1970 (Jul 15, 2009 8:53 pm) |
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Going through some of these e-mails, I'm still sickened by the inability of the majors making a decent-sized car with acceptable mileage. Then again, from my experience, the big-3 (2?) don't give a flying rip. I still can't get over Vauxhall/Opel (GM umbrella) denying me the ability to bring-back my Vectra. '52 plate. Elegance trim. 2.2-ltr Tdi, like the VW above. Bigger than my Accord I had before moving across the pond, yet, better gas mileage when tracked against the US standards instead of UK. Avg. 27-mpg city, 42-hwy. Couple times, hit 48-mpg but that was more cross-country driving. Fully loaded-down with suitcases and my family (4 of us). And GM exporting has the balls to ensure I don't bring it back here. Oh well. I've fallen-back into the wasteful ways here. Who knows? Maybe the other 2 will fall (hoping) and a major shake-up/reorg occurs that will force the mfgs. to build world-competitive consumer vehicles without the gouging just to cover some worker too lazy to perform a decent days labor. |
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Replying to: esk114 (Jul 16, 2009 6:48 pm) Welcome to the forum... You have said it all with that statement. If the automakers won't give US what is available World Wide. Why should I give a hoot about wasting gas? Then all the Climate Clowns wringing their hands and trying to make US feel guilty because we own an SUV that gets 14 MPG. When the same SUV is available outside the USA that will get 30+ MPG. The problem falls right on the shoulders of our worthless government. They make the rules just tough enough to keep diesels on the fringe. They are owned by the enviro nuts and oil companies that both detest diesel for different reasons. If we would just establish the same emissions rules the EU uses it would go a long ways to cutting our use of fossil fuel. The truth is, most of government are more interested in getting the taxes from gas guzzlers than they are in using less fuel. Why do you think this latest debacle will make it easy to trade a gas guzzler for another gas guzzler than for a high mileage vehicle? |
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