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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

1503 messages,  Last post on Nov 14, 2009 at 1:11 PM

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What is this discussion about? Car Buying, Biodiesel, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Coupe, Hatchback, SUV


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#1293 of 1503
Re: Let the "Feds" decide?? [ruking1] by plekto
Jun 29, 2009 (8:38 pm)
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Replying to: ruking1 (Jun 29, 2009 3:12 pm)

You'll note, though, that Mini is full-steam ahead on a TDI version of the Mini. Mostly because they *know* that people will gobble up every last one and pay a nice premium doing so.
 
It may just be the salvation that we're looking for, since it's a hot little car with loads of marketing power and "cool" factor. Add 45mpg+ to the current equation and it's sure to make some waves.
 
BMW, Mercedes, and Audi/VW are already small and have enough money to spend on Diesels(plus market premium cars already). So Diesels for them are an easy choice - and they are selling every one they can ship over here it seems(and doubly so if oil hits 200-300 a barrel in the next year or two as some suggest it might...
#1294 of 1503
Re: Let the "Feds" decide?? [plekto] by ruking1
Jun 29, 2009 (9:05 pm)
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Replying to: plekto (Jun 29, 2009 8:38 pm)

Actually you should have posted links to Mini Cooper diesels !! I didn't post it because of oems who've announced imminent diesel plans and... postponed or cancelled. So here is some "old" newslink title
 
So currently besides VW, BMW, MB, have passenger diesels on the 2009 MY market. 2010 Audi A3 (I think) has just hit the markets (June 09)
#1295 of 1503
Re: Let the "Feds" decide?? [ruking1] by plekto
Jun 30, 2009 (4:22 am)
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Replying to: ruking1 (Jun 29, 2009 9:05 pm)

Sorry - heh.
 
Mini/BMW is slated for 2011, and given the likely $4+ a gallon gas in a year(already $3+ a gallon here and that's due purely to the depreciation of the dollar - not any massive change in oil), I can easily see Toyota and the others that decided to wait being beat to the market by the European companies.
 
Note - Some of this is that the other German makers are wondering why if VW (basically seen my them as equivalent to Chrysler/the worst of the "German 3") can sell TDIs here, why aren't they also getting in on the game? Whether or not that's true is a whole other discussion, but it's nice to see a bit of ego and not wanting to be outdone influencing BMW and Mercedes for once.
 
Domestics and Japan? Too slow and conservative. Shame, really, since the first under $15K hot hatch that gets 50mpg+ and isn't a Geo Metro type stripped tin can will completely take over. Same with the first small TDI truck.
 
edit - watch the Fiat 500, btw - small, aggressive, and little to lose. They might jump on this, especially since Chrysler also isn't adverse to small diesels.
#1296 of 1503
Re: Let the "Feds" decide?? [plekto] by ruking1
Jun 30, 2009 (5:40 am)
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Replying to: plekto (Jun 30, 2009 4:22 am)

BMW and MB are actually competitors with their diesel offerings (2009). While I think I understand why, still from a volume and percentage point of view, VW is the "practical" only game in town.
 
From the Edmunds.com perspective, there are 24 (actual) vehicles on the (2009) market.link title
 
Most (59%) are really NOT in the passenger vehicle fleet, even as they are "IN" the passenger vehicle fleet.
#1297 of 1503
Re: Let the "Feds" decide?? [ruking1] by wjtinatl
Jun 30, 2009 (6:56 am)
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Replying to: ruking1 (Jun 30, 2009 5:40 am)

I don't want the Fed's decising anything else for me as they've demonstrated repeatedly an astounding ability to spend more doing less than any individual or private entity. I do believe however that without a consistent policy on energy and fuel, there's little incentive for manufacturer's to spend the money needed to federalize the astoundingly good diesel products they already offer in Europe. European manufacturers get the press, but Japanese and Domestic companies all have great 4 & 6 cylinder diesel's that could make an immediate impact in the US in Accord, Focus and Taurus sized cars as well as the light trucks and SUV's the US market still demands, although in lesser numbers. I'd trade our Navigator tomorrow for an Expedition that seats 6, carries the dogs and luggage and can tow a 7500 lb boat while still getting 20 mpg. Since an F-350 with the PowerStroke diesel can get 17-19 unloaded, it's not unlikely that a lighter vehicle with a V-6 turbo diesel could do the same or better. The key for manufacturer's would be to bring these products in at no more than $1500-$2000 more than their gas powered equivalent so a financial case could be made for their existence. If the diesel (or Hybrid) is going to cost $6-8k more, as they do today, the typical consumer will opt for the cheaper alternative. Not sure if that can be done or not, but in Europe the diesel does not command anywhere near the price premium it does in the US.
#1298 of 1503
Re: Let the "Feds" decide?? [ruking1] by fintail
Jun 30, 2009 (10:20 am)
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Replying to: ruking1 (Jun 30, 2009 5:40 am)

I have to wonder what is going on with the MB diesel lineup right now. DOT/EPA holdups? The new E-class isn't listed in any diesel variant from the 2010 promo material I have seen. I went to the local 2010 E-class party last week, and asked a salesman about the E350 "blue efficiency"...he looked at me like I was speaking in tongues, and referred me to some used bluetecs. These cars have been out for several months in Europe already. We still don't have a diesel C-class on this continent, and the hybrid diesel S400 became a hybrid gas S400, with no diesel S-class variant on the horizon for this continent. The diesels for MB are just a couple useless SUVs for 2010, as far as I know - not a good decision IMO.
#1299 of 1503
Re: Let the "Feds" decide?? [wjtinatl] by alltorque
Jun 30, 2009 (10:29 am)
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Replying to: wjtinatl (Jun 30, 2009 6:56 am)

You're right about the smaller price gap of petrol vs disel cars here in Europe.
 
Example is the VW Passat in "Highline" trim. The 1.8 TSI 160 bhp gasser has a sticker price of £18,752 whilst the 2.0 TDi 170 bhp diesel is ££20,019 - a delta of £1267, (circa $2090). However at point of sale that difference will more likely be just £1078, (circa $1778). These being UK figures, of course. As petrol and diesel are currently about the same price, (£1.03 per Litre locally), choosing a diesel in not a hard decision for anyone doing reasonable annual mileage; not to mention the better characteristics of the oil burner.
 
Similar situation exists with other makes. Honda Accord diesel is some $2600 dearer than the petrol equivalent, the Ford Focus differential is some $1800 and the BMW 3 Series diesel is circa $1200 dearer than the petrol - when looking at comparable outputs/trim levels.
 
The figures I'm using are consumer "target" prices published in various magazines and a $/£ ExRate of 1.65.
 
And yes - our car prices are eye-watering compared to yours......I think.
#1300 of 1503
Re: Let the "Feds" decide?? [fintail] by gagrice
Jun 30, 2009 (10:35 am)
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Replying to: fintail (Jun 30, 2009 10:20 am)

I ran into a couple from Canada with a B200 CDI similar to this one. They were traveling around the USA getting 50 MPG on diesel. They loved the car. What's not to like? German safety and handling with Prius mileage.
 
#1301 of 1503
Re: Let the "Feds" decide?? [gagrice] by fintail
Jun 30, 2009 (10:51 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 30, 2009 10:35 am)

That must have been some kind of private import - Canada gets the B-class, but not in diesel form - only in na and turbo gas models, the latter of which must be preferable.
 
The B-class looks like a decent little car, and I see plenty of them in Vancouver - pretty pricey though.
#1302 of 1503
Re: Let the "Feds" decide?? [fintail] by alltorque
Jun 30, 2009 (11:01 am)
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Replying to: fintail (Jun 30, 2009 10:51 am)

Yes, The Merc B Class is a nice car - but pricey compared to the opposition, (the 3-pointed star commands a premium). More Merc A Class cars here in UK but same choice of diesels.

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