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Automotive News & Views What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
1503 messages, Last post on Nov 14, 2009 at 1:11 PM
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 23, 2009 7:56 am) VW is building a plant here to sell gas-powered Passats, to whit a new Passat NOT shared with the European market, and "dumbed down" for American tastes and to reach a cheaper price point. Has nothing to do with TDI production. 1/3 or 1/2 or 60% of not much is still not much. I guess in order to gauge how well diesels could REALLY sell here, we need one of the Big 6 (of which VW isn't one) to introduce a diesel on one of their volume models. I got a survey after I bought my last Subaru asking me if I would be willing to pay $3000 extra for a diesel in a future Sube. I said yes, I would, but I also said I would be willing to spend $2500 more for a hybrid version, and lastly when asked to comment I said I would not buy another new Subaru unless it got at least 20% better fuel economy than the one I just bought (averaging 30 mpg so far, AWD and all). Diesel will probably be the easiest way for them to go, but either diesel or hybrid will save me my 20% in fuel.
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Replying to: nippononly (Jun 24, 2009 12:29 am) If VW does not bring the Golf or Tiguan TDI, I may use the clunker plan and get a Touareg TDI for my diesel rig. I am not thrilled with the urea crap, but life is far from perfect. The restrictions on buying an SUV under the plan are pretty lenient. The new SUV or pickup truck: Must cost $45,000 or less (MSR), must obtain 2 mpg better than the old for $3500, and 5 mpg for $4500. |
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Replying to: bpeebles (Jun 23, 2009 6:32 pm) Sadly, though, that engine was installed in cars that have the reliability of the average Daewoo or older Kia. Some folks are okay with that; I'm not one of them. |
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so I thought I would post this tidbit from Automotive News today: Automakers scrap diesel plans Mainstream carmakers have put the brakes on nine diesel-powered vehicles that had been scheduled for 2010. Honda, Chrysler, Ford, General Motors, Nissan and Toyota have halted diesel programs because of spiraling costs and other problems. Financial problems halted the programs at some companies. Others, like Toyota Motor Corp., are looking elsewhere for fuel economy. "We are banking heavily on hybrids," said Toyota spokesman Curt McAllister. .....A diesel engine typically delivers fuel economy 20 to 30 percent better than that of a gasoline engine. But a diesel can add between $3,000 and $8,000 to a vehicle's price. Costly components include the turbocharger, the high-pressure fuel injection system and the complex emissions system, which is filled with precious metals. That cost seems to be a barrier for the mass-market brands. ......The image of the diesel engine may be one reason Toyota has halted its plans. Says McAllister: "One of the obstacles of the diesel is the aged perception that the diesel is smoky and stinky. It's hard to change the mind-set of consumers. Hybrid technology has such a clean halo to it." And just to mollify gagrice a bit (!!): Kevin McMahon, a partner at the Martec Group, a consulting firm, says the way the EPA calculates fuel economy and carbon dioxide standards gives gasoline-electric hybrids an unfair advantage over diesels. http://www.autonews.com/article/20090629/ANA06/306299972/1178 (registration link) One thing is for sure, if only the Europeans are taking on diesels for the foreseeable future, they will remain a tiny percentage of overall automotobile sales in the U.S.
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Replying to: nippononly (Jun 28, 2009 10:31 pm) Until the Feds get serious about using less fossil fuel and GHG, we will continue on this path of high consumption.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 29, 2009 4:44 am) I love my 56+ MPG and dont see Subaru on the above list. Lets hope the flat-four Diesel is still on its way here. Imagine a diesel engine with perfect primary balance....ssssmmmmoooottttthhhh as silk. Personally, I am tired of people thinking that the "Feds" should 'do' anything more than build roads and finanace the military. History tells us that no government on earth is as efficent as the free-market. The last thing we need is the "feds" sticking their noses in and telling us what kind of cars to drive. Let the prices of fuel and everything else do what they willl and the Diesel engines will be here shortly.
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Replying to: bpeebles (Jun 29, 2009 2:54 pm) PS Don't hold your breath on the Subaru passing the stiffer emissions. |
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Replying to: bpeebles (Jun 29, 2009 2:54 pm) With almost everybody else either freezing or cancelling diesel plans, it would appear that VW is poised to take whatever market share it sets its mind to, but more importantly can sell. They have already trail blazed a diesel 30% production rate, starting off with a 25% target. This during arguably during the WORST economic down turn since the Great Depression. They have set a 40% diesel production rate for 2010. The additional advantage would seem to be no diesel competition on the horizon; or  least in the short term, 5 years !!?? They have diesels in: cross over suv, compact, with a midsize built in the US in 2010. Being the #3 auto oem in the world, with over half of its sales in diesel already, this would not appear to be a "new line of risk and investment" for them. This might not necessarily be true for other oems.
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Replying to: ruking1 (Jun 29, 2009 3:12 pm) It may just be the salvation that we're looking for, since it's a hot little car with loads of marketing power and "cool" factor. Add 45mpg+ to the current equation and it's sure to make some waves. BMW, Mercedes, and Audi/VW are already small and have enough money to spend on Diesels(plus market premium cars already). So Diesels for them are an easy choice - and they are selling every one they can ship over here it seems(and doubly so if oil hits 200-300 a barrel in the next year or two as some suggest it might...
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Replying to: plekto (Jun 29, 2009 8:38 pm) So currently besides VW, BMW, MB, have passenger diesels on the 2009 MY market. 2010 Audi A3 (I think) has just hit the markets (June 09)
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