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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

1503 messages,  Last post on Nov 14, 2009 at 1:11 PM

You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires

What is this discussion about? Car Buying, Biodiesel, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Coupe, Hatchback, SUV


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#1250 of 1503
Re: meanwhile, back on the ranch [bigmclargehuge] by bpeebles
May 07, 2009 (4:40 pm)
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (May 07, 2009 4:22 pm)

I think we all know that THE REST OF THE WORLD has a small diesel pickup.
Toyota taco
Subaru Baja
Ford stRanger
Dodge Dakota
...etc
 
I have said many times before on this very forum that I would be in line if these were offered in USA.
 
Instead, I ended up with Subaru Baja turbo (smallest pckup truck I could find..and it has the power of a V8)
#1251 of 1503
Re: meanwhile, back on the ranch [gagrice] by bumpy
May 07, 2009 (5:50 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (May 06, 2009 3:20 pm)

The 335d is 1400 lbs lighter than the X5. It should have no trouble getting 35+ MPG on the highway. What would it get with the 2.0L 4 cylinder is my question.
 
Fortunately we can compare the US and UK ratings for the 335d and extrapolate what a US-spec 320d would get.
 
all automatics-
335d: 31/ 53.3/ 42.2 UK mpg; 23/ 36/ 27 US mpg
320d: 39.2/ 62.8/ 51.4 UK mpg; [29/ 42.4/ 32.9 US mpg]
 
A bit better than a diesel Jetta, probably thank to taller gearing.
#1252 of 1503
Re: meanwhile, back on the ranch [bumpy] by bhill2
May 08, 2009 (11:54 am)
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Replying to: bumpy (May 07, 2009 5:50 pm)

Can anyone tell me how much tighter the US emission standards are than the European (diesel) standards? I would love one of the new diesels in a mid-sized sedan (which is why I agree with some of the above posters about BMW's mistake in putting the diesel in a 3-series instead of a 5-series). I am relatively sure that Europe has instituted fairly stringent emission standards, and if we are being denied the fuel (and CO2) savings of a diesel because of some marginal difference in standards I plan to be severely pi**ed.
#1253 of 1503
Re: meanwhile, back on the ranch [bhill2] by jkinzel
May 08, 2009 (2:04 pm)
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Replying to: bhill2 (May 08, 2009 11:54 am)

I can't give you details, but you hit the nail on the head. The US emissions standards are just a little higher than European stanadards. Many think, myself included, that it is by design.
 
Almost every car sold in the US has a diesel counterpart sold in the rest of the world.
#1254 of 1503
Re: meanwhile, back on the ranch [jkinzel] by jlbl
May 08, 2009 (2:34 pm)
Reply

Replying to: jkinzel (May 08, 2009 2:04 pm)

Current & future European emission standards
 
Emission standards for passenger cars are summarised in the following table. Diesels have more stringent CO standards but are allowed higher NOx emissions. Gasoline-powered vehicles are exempted from particulate matter (PM) standards through to the Euro 4 stage, but vehicles with direct injection engines will be subject to a limit of 0.005 g/km for Euro 5 and Euro 6.
 
European emission standards for passenger cars (Category M1*), g/km
Diesel
Euro 4 January 2005 覧 CO 0.5 覧 HC - 覧 NOx 0.25 覧 HC+NOx 0.3 覧 PM 0.025
Euro 5 (future) September 2009 覧 CO 0.5 覧 HC - 覧 NOx 0.18 覧 HC+NOx 0.23 覧 PM 0.005
Euro 6 (future) September 2014 覧 CO 0.5 覧 HC - 覧 NOx 0.08 覧 HC+NOx 0.17 覧 PM 0.005
 
Gasoline
Euro 4 January 2005 覧 CO 1.0 覧 HC 0.1 覧 NOx 0.08 覧 HC+NOx - 覧 PM -
Euro 5 (future) September 2009 覧 CO 1.0 覧 HC 0.1 覧 NOx 0.06 覧 HC+NOx - 覧 PM 0.005**
Euro 6 (future) September 2014 覧 CO 1.0 覧 HC 0.1 覧 NOx 0.06 覧 HC+NOx - 覧 PM 0.005**
 
* Before Euro 5, passenger vehicles > 2500 kg were type approved as light commercial vehicle N1 - I
** Applies only to vehicles with direct injection engines

 
Regards,
Jose
#1255 of 1503
Re: meanwhile, back on the ranch [jkinzel] by ruking1
May 08, 2009 (2:38 pm)
Reply

Replying to: jkinzel (May 08, 2009 2:04 pm)

Jose posted the European figures. Now here is the kicker (try to) find where it is posted for US market products so you can compare them apples to apples.......
#1256 of 1503
Re: meanwhile, back on the ranch [ruking1] by gagrice
May 08, 2009 (2:49 pm)
Reply

Replying to: ruking1 (May 08, 2009 2:38 pm)

Here is the chart to cross examine. Diesels are Bin
 
http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/summarychart.pdf
#1257 of 1503
Re: meanwhile, back on the ranch [gagrice] by ruking1
May 08, 2009 (3:36 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (May 08, 2009 2:49 pm)

The charts are basically a 2x4 to the head why they want to cut off (3% of the passenger diesel fleet to 2% ) and keep both the volume and percentage down. It has NOTHING to do with any statistically significance in the quality of air.
 
Burn more is better !!!
#1258 of 1503
Re: meanwhile, back on the ranch [ruking1] by ruking1
May 09, 2009 (8:36 am)
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Replying to: ruking1 (May 08, 2009 3:36 pm)

..." It has NOTHING to do with any statistically significance ^ in the quality of air. "...
 
insert
^" in correlation"
 
Indeed what is correlated is burn more is better !!!
#1259 of 1503
Re: meanwhile, back on the ranch [ruking1] by bpeebles
May 09, 2009 (7:18 pm)
Reply

Replying to: ruking1 (May 09, 2009 8:36 am)

Alas - "burn more is better" seems to be the way US laws are written.
 
Several states have already kicked up the gasoline/diesel tax claiming that the more efficent vehicles have reduced their cashflow. The tax man will ALWAYS get his cut no matter how little fuel you burn.
 
As for the US federal emmissions laws -vs- diesel.... If you do any research on the subject, you will quickly learn that the EPA does not like diesel for some reason and is trying to keep them off the roads by making the emmissions-standards almost impossible to meet.
 
Case in point... the new VW TDI engine which is 50-state legal is by far the most complicated engine they have ever sold. I am half-afraid all that complexity may make the reliability suffer.

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