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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

1503 messages,  Last post on Nov 14, 2009 at 1:11 PM

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What is this discussion about? Car Buying, Biodiesel, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Coupe, Hatchback, SUV


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#1245 of 1503
Re: meanwhile, back on the ranch [bigmclargehuge] by ruking1
May 06, 2009 (2:27 pm)
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (May 06, 2009 12:59 pm)

..."Any other class, I think BMW would have an easier time. "...
 
As both you and Gagrice have delineated, I would be inclined to agree.. I (my 02 cents) think it is great to have one engine common to two cars, but as you have also said, BMW buyers are a niche market.
 
I SERIOUSLY like the 335 D !! It truly is made for long distance road travel. As for the diesel in SUV platforms, an absolute no brainer.
#1246 of 1503
Re: meanwhile, back on the ranch [ruking1] by gagrice
May 06, 2009 (3:20 pm)
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Replying to: ruking1 (May 06, 2009 2:27 pm)

After feeling the acceleration out on the highway in a 5200 lb SUV, it is hard to imagine just how fast the much lighter 335D must feel. The 335d is 1400 lbs lighter than the X5. It should have no trouble getting 35+ MPG on the highway. What would it get with the 2.0L 4 cylinder is my question. I guess we are destined to be offered only rockets to satisfy the gas tax people forever. No automaker but VW has the persistence to bring a high mileage 4 cylinder diesel to the American market. By some odd coincidence they are one of the few still making money in this recession.
#1247 of 1503
Re: meanwhile, back on the ranch [bigmclargehuge] by plekto
May 06, 2009 (10:39 pm)
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (May 06, 2009 11:19 am)

A 3.0L diesel is all that is needed for a 1/2 ton PU. A 2.5L 4 cylinder for the Ranger/Tacoma sized. Leave the heavy hauling to the 3/4 ton and bigger PU trucks.
 
Then clearly, someone (I'm looking at you Ford ) needs to borrow the BMW I-6 diesel for a light pickup.
 
Except they already sell a diesel Ranger to most of the rest of the world. Already have it, zero r&d required - just change some headlights and other minor bits the same as Mercedes and BMW and VW do with their vehicles.
#1248 of 1503
Re: meanwhile, back on the ranch [gagrice] by jlbl
May 07, 2009 (2:26 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (May 06, 2009 3:20 pm)

I SERIOUSLY like the 335 D !! It truly is made for long distance road travel. Ruking1
 
It is.
 
After feeling the acceleration out on the highway in a 5200 lb SUV, it is hard to imagine just how fast the much lighter 335D must feel. The 335d is 1400 lbs lighter than the X5. It should have no trouble getting 35+ MPG on the highway. Gagrice
 
It has not… at legal speed.
 
I know you knew.
 
Regards,
Jose
#1249 of 1503
Re: meanwhile, back on the ranch [plekto] by bigmclargehuge
May 07, 2009 (4:22 pm)
Reply

Replying to: plekto (May 06, 2009 10:39 pm)

Except they already sell a diesel Ranger to most of the rest of the world. Already have it, zero r&d required - just change some headlights and other minor bits the same as Mercedes and BMW and VW do with their vehicles.
 
I disagree with this assessment. Due to inconsistent emissions criteria, VW and BMW are jumping through far more hoops to get their diesels 50-state-certified. Urea injection for one thing was a American-market criteria.
 
Ford's R&D and training of thousands of dealership service workers constitutes a massive infrastructure shift. In some cases, using an already introduced engine in a country gets around more bureaucratic tape.
 
Like I said, Ford hadn't produced a single diesel engine in-house for 20 years in the US. Navistar did. Ford has no ability to bring a 50-state small diesel to the US market any time in the foreseeable future.
 
I seriously think anyone in the small pickup market in the US has an easy choice in front of them... license the BMW, VW, and Merc diesels.
 
#1250 of 1503
Re: meanwhile, back on the ranch [bigmclargehuge] by bpeebles
May 07, 2009 (4:40 pm)
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Replying to: bigmclargehuge (May 07, 2009 4:22 pm)

I think we all know that THE REST OF THE WORLD has a small diesel pickup.
Toyota taco
Subaru Baja
Ford stRanger
Dodge Dakota
...etc
 
I have said many times before on this very forum that I would be in line if these were offered in USA.
 
Instead, I ended up with Subaru Baja turbo (smallest pckup truck I could find..and it has the power of a V8)
#1251 of 1503
Re: meanwhile, back on the ranch [gagrice] by bumpy
May 07, 2009 (5:50 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (May 06, 2009 3:20 pm)

The 335d is 1400 lbs lighter than the X5. It should have no trouble getting 35+ MPG on the highway. What would it get with the 2.0L 4 cylinder is my question.
 
Fortunately we can compare the US and UK ratings for the 335d and extrapolate what a US-spec 320d would get.
 
all automatics-
335d: 31/ 53.3/ 42.2 UK mpg; 23/ 36/ 27 US mpg
320d: 39.2/ 62.8/ 51.4 UK mpg; [29/ 42.4/ 32.9 US mpg]
 
A bit better than a diesel Jetta, probably thank to taller gearing.
#1252 of 1503
Re: meanwhile, back on the ranch [bumpy] by bhill2
May 08, 2009 (11:54 am)
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Replying to: bumpy (May 07, 2009 5:50 pm)

Can anyone tell me how much tighter the US emission standards are than the European (diesel) standards? I would love one of the new diesels in a mid-sized sedan (which is why I agree with some of the above posters about BMW's mistake in putting the diesel in a 3-series instead of a 5-series). I am relatively sure that Europe has instituted fairly stringent emission standards, and if we are being denied the fuel (and CO2) savings of a diesel because of some marginal difference in standards I plan to be severely pi**ed.
#1253 of 1503
Re: meanwhile, back on the ranch [bhill2] by jkinzel
May 08, 2009 (2:04 pm)
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Replying to: bhill2 (May 08, 2009 11:54 am)

I can't give you details, but you hit the nail on the head. The US emissions standards are just a little higher than European stanadards. Many think, myself included, that it is by design.
 
Almost every car sold in the US has a diesel counterpart sold in the rest of the world.
#1254 of 1503
Re: meanwhile, back on the ranch [jkinzel] by jlbl
May 08, 2009 (2:34 pm)
Reply

Replying to: jkinzel (May 08, 2009 2:04 pm)

Current & future European emission standards
 
Emission standards for passenger cars are summarised in the following table. Diesels have more stringent CO standards but are allowed higher NOx emissions. Gasoline-powered vehicles are exempted from particulate matter (PM) standards through to the Euro 4 stage, but vehicles with direct injection engines will be subject to a limit of 0.005 g/km for Euro 5 and Euro 6.
 
European emission standards for passenger cars (Category M1*), g/km
Diesel
Euro 4 January 2005 —— CO 0.5 —— HC - —— NOx 0.25 —— HC+NOx 0.3 —— PM 0.025
Euro 5 (future) September 2009 —— CO 0.5 —— HC - —— NOx 0.18 —— HC+NOx 0.23 —— PM 0.005
Euro 6 (future) September 2014 —— CO 0.5 —— HC - —— NOx 0.08 —— HC+NOx 0.17 —— PM 0.005
 
Gasoline
Euro 4 January 2005 —— CO 1.0 —— HC 0.1 —— NOx 0.08 —— HC+NOx - —— PM -
Euro 5 (future) September 2009 —— CO 1.0 —— HC 0.1 —— NOx 0.06 —— HC+NOx - —— PM 0.005**
Euro 6 (future) September 2014 —— CO 1.0 —— HC 0.1 —— NOx 0.06 —— HC+NOx - —— PM 0.005**
 
* Before Euro 5, passenger vehicles > 2500 kg were type approved as light commercial vehicle N1 - I
** Applies only to vehicles with direct injection engines

 
Regards,
Jose

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