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Ford Flex Lease Questions

177 messages,  Last post on Mar 24, 2013 at 1:56 PM

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What is this discussion about? Ford Flex, Car Buying, Car Leasing, Wagon

    

Messages Page 7 of 19

#56 of 177 Re: Carman: Lease Loyalty Question [djhalptert] by baggs32

Mar 09, 2009 (10:03 am)

Replying to: djhalptert (Mar 08, 2009 12:20 pm)
I bought a $30,000 Explorer in 2003 for $18,600 WITH ZERO DOWN, NO TRADE-IN. I mentioned it because you got $2,000 off your MSRP and I got over $11,000.
 
I've seen final buy-down rebates of $8000+ for Explorers recently but by that time leases are over for the MY. Again, not helpful.
 
$1,500 in negative equity raised your payment $30. Like I said, DIDN'T DRASTICALLY AFFECT PAYMENT. Quit making excuses why you got ripped off on your lease.
 
I don't feel I was ripped off. I feel I got a fair price and I can live with that. If you can't then have fun pinching your pennies the rest of your life.
 
YOU DON'T PAY THE TOTAL OF ALL MONTHLY PAYMENTS LEFT! i.e. if your payment is $500 per month and you have 4 months left, your lease buyout isn't $2,000. Your lease buyout is determined solely on three things. Firstly, the depreciation fee. Secondly, a mileage adjustment. Thirdly, the real world value of the vehicle.
 
Yeah, that's one option if the trade-in value is anywhere near the balance you owe which is not the case on any SUV today. The other option is to pay your remaining payments (see option 2 below). You might know how to negotiate better prices but please don't try to fool all of us into thinking you know everything about leasing.
 
From the Ford Credit site:
"Early Vehicle Return
 
    * Return the vehicle to the original dealer
    * Sign a Vehicle Condition Report and Odometer Statement
    * Pay one of the following amounts, whichever is less
 
1. The difference, if any, between the Current Balance (see below) and the Fair Market Wholesale Value of the vehicle, plus an early termination fee (except California and some Wisconsin leases), plus all other amounts then due under the lease. The Fair Market Wholesale Value will be determined at your option by one of the three following methods:
 
   1. An amount agreed to by you and the originating dealer, or
   2. The net amount received by Ford Credit upon the sale of the vehicle at wholesale auction, or
   3. An amount determined by a professional independent appraiser (the appraiser must be agreeable to Ford Credit and will be at your expense)
 
OR
 
2. The sum of the remaining unpaid lease payments, plus any excess wear and use and mileage charges, and all other amounts then due under the lease."
 
Have you looked back at posts in this thread by chance? Show me where anyone had a payment better than what I was quoted. And no, 2009 models have not been on the lots for 7 months now. Two local dealers finally received their first 2009 Explorers which have been in production for roughly 6 months now. There are several loaded Flex Limiteds around that have been sitting for a while but even with a great deal I'm not sure I'd want one. Everything else has been kept at low stock levels and new copies don't arrive until the old ones are gone. It sounds like you have one of those mega dealers near you if you can see '09s sitting around since August. I don't have one of those near me, at least not one that sells Fords, so it's pretty stable right now. You really and truly have to understand the differences in markets before handing out advice you take to be universal. I guess that's why we all ask carman for his thoughts and not you.

#57 of 177 Re: Chicago area lease rates? [jmartin1] by Car_man HOST

Mar 10, 2009 (3:32 am)

Replying to: jmartin1 (Mar 05, 2009 8:46 pm)
Hi jmartin1. ford Credit's current base lease rate and residual value for a 36 month lease of a 2009 Flex Limited AWD with 12,000 miles per year are 1.0% and 50%, respectively. As you can see, Ford Credit publishes lease rates instead of money factors for the vehicles that it leases. You can convert its lease rates into approximate money factor equivalents by dividing them by 2400. So a lease rate of 1.0% would be equivalent to a money factor of around 0.00042.
 
Car_man
Host
Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum

#58 of 177 Re: Carman: Lease Loyalty Question [baggs32] by djhalptert

Mar 10, 2009 (4:18 pm)

Replying to: baggs32 (Mar 09, 2009 10:03 am)
As I said, go to a high volume dealer. You live in Pittsburgh according to your profile. Tell me you can't find a "MEGA DEALER" within 250 miles?? Only if you aren't looking.
 
ANY dealer will tell you about your LEASE PAYOFF. Notice I didn't say BUY OUT. PAYOFF is as I described. It has nothing to do with an appraiser or fair market value. You owe what the rent charge portion of your payments add up to be plus/minus the trade-in they give you.
 
Pinching pennies??? Try pinching the $5600 you overpaid on your 39 month lease.
 
I guess that's why we all ask carman for his thoughts and not you.
 
FROM CAR_MAN (TO YOU) FEB. 24th, 2009: "To be honest with you, $500 per month seems like a lot of money to lease a Ford Flex to me anyhow. Leasing just isn't what it used to be for domestic vehicles. The Flex is probably slightly bigger, but you could lease a fairly similar nice AWD Subaru for at least $100 per month less than that, if not $150/month less. That seems like a much better value to me. If I really wanted a Flex, I personally would be more inclined to finance it instead of lease it."
 
You are THE ONLY ONE who thinks $500 for a Flex is reasonable.

#59 of 177 Re: Sept 08 Ford Flex Lease Info [Car_man] by jwinter65

Mar 11, 2009 (7:02 am)

Replying to: Car_man (Sep 24, 2008 3:31 am)
Saw this post and am curious if the rates in NY are unchanged? Looking at a Flex Limited and they priced out a lease using 1.25 as the rate. The residual was $21550.20 on list price of $43980.00. Does this sound right? Lastly, he is basing the lease price on Invoice as he says thats what he has to pay the dealer who has the car?

#60 of 177 Press Request by KarenS HOST

Mar 11, 2009 (8:50 am)

A reporter would like to talk with owners of the Ford Flex. Please respond to jfallonedmunds.com by March 18, 2009 noting your daytime contact info and a word about why you bought your Flex.

#61 of 177 Re: Carman: Lease Loyalty Question [djhalptert] by baggs32

Mar 11, 2009 (9:47 am)

Replying to: djhalptert (Mar 10, 2009 4:18 pm)
Try pinching the $5600 you overpaid on your 39 month lease.
 
Boy I'd really like to know how you arrived at that amount. Please enlighten me.
 
Tell me you can't find a "MEGA DEALER" within 250 miles?? Only if you aren't looking.
 
You're right about that. I'm not looking that far out. I've looked 50 miles out or less and there definitely is not a mega dealer in that range. I'm not going farther than that because it's not that important to me to save every dollar I can. Have I not made that clear?
 
Yes, carman did say this as you pointed out:
"To be honest with you, $500 per month seems like a lot of money to lease a Ford Flex to me anyhow. Leasing just isn't what it used to be for domestic vehicles.
 
Did you read the second sentence though? Do you see how all he's telling us is that leasing deals are not what they used to be and that's why the payments are higher these days? If 0% comes back in May when I'm ready to buy/lease I'll definitely try for a lower price, maybe not to the extent you would, and see if buying is better. Right now the interest rates are 3.9% for 60 months and 2.9% for 48 months from Ford so leasing will still be cheaper for us even if it were possible to get some insane amount of money off of a Flex at that time. The lease finance rate is 2% currently. I think that's actually up from what it was a few months ago.
 
He also said this:
The Flex is probably slightly bigger, but you could lease a fairly similar nice AWD Subaru for at least $100 per month less than that, if not $150/month less.
 
How much can you get that Subaru for? $100 a month? Maybe $150?
 
You are THE ONLY ONE who thinks $500 for a Flex is reasonable.
 
Did you look back through this thread to see what others paid like I asked you to? Didn't think so. Remember that about $60 of that is the first month's payment, 10% PA tax and security deposit rolled into the payment. Pay close attention to the trim levels and options the other posters listed too. Don't just look for the lowest price you can find and report back. I've seen it and it was a base SE with 2 or 3 inexpensive options that stikered for $7000 less than the one I'm looking at right now.

#62 of 177 Re: Carman: Lease Loyalty Question [baggs32] by chuck68516

Mar 11, 2009 (12:24 pm)

Replying to: baggs32 (Mar 11, 2009 9:47 am)
Did you look back through this thread to see what others paid like I asked you to? Didn't think so. Remember that about $60 of that is the first month's payment, 10% PA tax and security deposit rolled into the payment. Pay close attention to the trim levels and options the other posters listed too. Don't just look for the lowest price you can find and report back. I've seen it and it was a base SE with 2 or 3 inexpensive options that stikered for $7000 less than the one I'm looking at right now.
 
Thought I would jump back in here.
1. Ford's security deposit is not mandatory. It is not even recommended. Wear Care is a complete and total rip off and can be waived. Just put a check mark in the box that says no on the Wear Care form.
2. Your state is one of the few that leasing makes literally zero sense. 10% sales tax on a lease! And that has to be added into the net cap cost so you are paying the rent charge on it too? Ouch!
3. I don't think you could lease a Flex SEL AWD for any less than $375 in any state or through any high volume dealer. However, I do think $500 is outrageous whether you are rolling in first month's payment or not. You could buy a $35,000 MSRP Flex for $28,000 or less. Invoice is around $33,000. Knock a minimum of $1,500 off invoice. Then add the $4,000 in rebates. You are at $27,500 easily. Add 7% sales tax to that and you are financing only $29,425. Payment would be around $495. Basically, there is no point in leasing it if the payment is the same.
4. If you can't save at least $100 a month leasing vs buying. BUY IT.

#63 of 177 Re: Chicago area lease rates? [Car_man] by chuck68516

Mar 13, 2009 (7:24 pm)

Replying to: Car_man (Mar 10, 2009 3:32 am)
Car_Man,
 
What are the current numbers for a 2009 Ford Flex SEL AWD, 36 month, 10,500 per year in the Omaha, Nebraska area? My local dealer has been quoting me some crazy numbers. Sale price on MSRP $35,410 is down to $26,256 but lease rate is way too high.

#64 of 177 Re: Carman: Lease Loyalty Question [chuck68516] by baggs32

Mar 17, 2009 (10:19 am)

Replying to: chuck68516 (Mar 11, 2009 12:24 pm)
Ford's security deposit is not mandatory. It is not even recommended. Wear Care is a complete and total rip off and can be waived. Just put a check mark in the box that says no on the Wear Care form.
 
Didn't know you could completely waive the security deposit on all leases. Are you sure about that? I know they sometimes waive it across the board during certain promotions. Wear Care is a joke and I agree with you there. The finance guy always gets mad after I tell them "No" to that waste of money. How much do they make off of that package anyway?
 
Your state is one of the few that leasing makes literally zero sense.
 
There are a lot of things in this state that don't make sense. That's one of the least of our worries!
 
You could buy a $35,000 MSRP Flex for $28,000 or less. Invoice is around $33,000. Knock a minimum of $1,500 off invoice. Then add the $4,000 in rebates. You are at $27,500 easily. Add 7% sales tax to that and you are financing only $29,425. Payment would be around $495. Basically, there is no point in leasing it if the payment is the same.
 
I disagree. I lease because I only want the vehicle for 3 years or less then I want something new. The payments are still lower when leasing and I'm not trying to trade it back in and take a loss every 3 years. We did that twice and are now set on leasing because it keeps both my wife and I sane.
 
Also, I'm not sure where you got those numbers. The rebates on a Flex right now are only $3000 here and using a 6% interest rate, which is a pretty reasonable rate right now for good credit IIRC, for 60 months the payment is roughly $588 per month after tax. What rate were you using? Ford won't give you the $3000 and their special rates right now.
 
So even if it were about getting the lowest payment your financing example doesn't seem to work either. I see your point and totally agree with most of it, but I still have yet to find anyone who can lease for less than what I was quoted. I'm not sure if you're $375 per month lease for a Flex SEL was a typo or what but I would have to say that payment is impossible to arrive at without cash down. The rebate for leasing here is $250 and you would need to somehow get $6000 off of a base SEL AWD to get an out the door payment of $375 per month for 39 months 10,500 miles per year. That's with PA 10% tax but does not inlcude any fees, payments, or any other monies. If someone can explain how to do that I'm all ears. I can see $3000 off but not $6000. Even without the PA tax you still need $4750 off to get a before tax payment of $375.
 
Base 2009 Flex SEL AWD
MSRP: $34,950 (includes D&D)
Lease rebate: $250
Interest rate: 2.0%
Residual: Unknown and I doubt they will haggle with this right now even if they could
 
Invoice should be easy to get. Possibly lower if you work at it. But invoice is, like you said, around $33000 (X-Plan site says about $32,800 IIRC). That's a far cry from the $29k you need to get to for the $375 per month. I'm sure I'm not willing to go toe to toe with a dealer for that. I'm also sure I'd never get it. I can't recall anyone I know ever getting lower than invoice on anything either. Ever. That's not to say it doesn't happen elsewhere, just not the norm around here from what I've seen and heard.

#65 of 177 by djhalptert

Mar 17, 2009 (10:46 pm)

Wear Care is 100% profit. They don't even ever look at my leases when I return them. Don't get it. It's like getting the extended warranty on a toaster.
 
I was basing financing quotes off 72 months. Who would get a 60 month loan for over $25,000? The rates for 60 and 72 are pretty much universally equal. You just get to divide it into 12 more payments. You are only paying like $250 total more interest after 3 years of the loan and your payment is $70 less. It's smarter to get the 72 month loan for the same rate and pay a little extra on it if/when you can.
 
Ford should not post MSRP or even Invoice. Fair Market Value is the number they need to put on every car. I have never known anyone, including myself of course, who have ever paid OVER invoice. Most of the time I have gotten at least $2,000 under invoice (not including rebates). $500 under invoice should be the absolute minimum price on any widely available vehicle from any manufacturer. By minimum price I really mean worst case scenario. You are at least getting $500 off invoice. The dealers don't even pay invoice price for the car. Then there's the dealer holdback, numerous manufacturer to dealer incentives, rebates, advertising fees. It's crazy to think that after getting $5,000 off MSRP they are actually still making thousands but it's TRUE.
 
If you don't think you can get way, way under your beloved X-Plan, look at the previous poster. Chuck is at $26,000 on a $35,000 SEL. That's $9,000 off instead of your $2,000.
 
You keep asking the same questions and I keep answering them. We will just have to agree to disagree. Out.

Messages Page 7 of 19

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