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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Ford Flex Prices Paid and Buying Experience
95 messages, Last post on Nov 06, 2009 at 12:00 PM
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We were given a quote last night on a '09 FLEX SEL. After reading what the MSRP is vs the Dealer Invoice Price, I want to find out if what I want to actually go back to the dealer with is reasonable. $38,880 MSRP +499.00 Appearance Protection (added by dealer) +99.00 Nitro (added by dealer) +249.00 Theft Protection (added by dealer) -2,596.02 X Plan -2,000.00 Rebates $35.030.98 SELLING PRICE - $2,500.00 trade-in value (which is nothing near what research says it to be) $32,530.98 ADJUSTED PRICE $35,543.35 BALANCE Due with tax, tag, tire/battery fee, and Dealer Svc. Fee I'm wanting the starting price to be $36,500 instead of $38,880. And maybe add a little more to the trade-in. Is that totally out of line? The salesman said "Ford" wouldn't allow them to negotiate the price any differently since we were given the X Plan and rebates. Is that true? Any advice is much appreciate!
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Replying to: jaxwitt (Jun 27, 2009 2:08 pm) If, what you mean is that vehicle's X-Plan price is $36,283.98, you're already below your desired starting point for negotiation and, I'd wager, dealer invoice. However, with respect to your math (which nets-out at $35,130.98 BTW), it's rather impossible to know given everything else you've rolled-in to further obscure the actual figures (and also doing a fair share of the salesperson's work for him/her), As for trade-in value, tax, title, other compulsory fees, and rebates, they have no business as part of your negotiations as they have absolutely nothing to do with the purchase price. Your trade-in is something you're going to have to simply weigh on your own whether the dealer is offering you enough to make it worth your while to accept their offer rather than selling it outright, keeping in mind that any trade allowance will also likely reduce the total sales tax you eventually pay. Taxes and other legislated fees are universally applicable costs that everyone pays and cannot be negotiated. (Though if this "Dealer Service Fee" you mention is any more than a nominal amount or a term the dealer uses instead of "additional profit", you should add your own line-item deduction for "Consumer Time and Attention" for precisely twice that amount. The rebate does NOT reduce the vehicle's purchase price. It is monies rebated to you after the purchase, toward your downpayment. In addition to the myriad obvious reasons why rebates are not appropriate elements in the negotiated purchase price, unless you live in a small handful of states where things are done differently, you will pay sales tax on any rebates you receive. With respect to the dealer-installed items, they are part of the vehicle; and unless the dealer can and is willing to remove them from the vehicle, you are going to have to pay something for them which should be determined as an additional amount separate and distinct from the negotiated cost of the vehicle itself. Unless they are OEM Ford accessories, as some remote start and security systems can be, they are also likely to be most profitable items for the dealer. I have no idea whatever the hell "Appearance Protection" could be and why it would cost $499.00 when the warranty covers the paint and body against corrosion and your insurance protects you against damage, but it sure smacks of Jerry Lundergaard hawking "Tru-Coat". Even so, they're part of the purchase that you're going to have to contend with accordingly if you want to buy that particular vehicle. While X-Plan is a fixed-price, nothing prevents the dealer from selling it conventionally as a freely-negotiated sale for any amount they choose. They may say they "can't", which means they "don't want to", as any further reduction will simply come from the dealer's post-sale profit margin. The dealer is also free to pay you any amount it chooses for your trade-in. However he chooses to do his bookkeeping beyond that point is of no nevermind to you, provided the dealer doesn't use it as an opportunity to hide other expenses or use it as a pretense for resisting further concessions which, as I've described, is precisely why nothing could put you at a greater disadvantage than negotiating a "final price" without first resolving each of its constituent elements.
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Replying to: madlock (Jun 27, 2009 11:28 pm) The numbers I previously input came directly from the dealers "work sheet" and was incorrectly typed $499.00 instead of $399.00 for the Appearance Protection so the math did appear screwy. We were told Appearance Protection was a polymer wax/sealant on the outside and industrial Scotchguard on the inside seats and carpet - but the seats are leather (go figure!). Regarding your Rebate information - still a bit unclear. The dealer listed the rebates we qualified for prior to the quoted "Selling Price" (as indicated in our first posting). Are you saying the rebates should not be included at that point? And if not, when do they get included. And then the rebates change depending on finance options...very confusing... Again - appreciate your assistance MADLOCK!
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Dealer "worksheets" are formatted as they are for very specific reasons, one of which is the manner by which they deliberately present the information in ways that make determining their constituent elements more difficult. Work from your own worksheet that doesn't; the dealer can write-up the purchase any way it likes after-the-fact. I would ask the dealer how many customers whose vehicle did not include the dealer-applied "Protection Package" independently chose to have it applied after-the-fact. While ScotchGard is a great idea, it's also about $7 a can and ideally should be reapplied periodically and after major cleanings to ensure its efficacy. You may want to invest in a couple of cans to set on the dealer's desk to go with your "no thank you". You should also ask what super-secret formula they use to protect the exterior by specific name, calling them to account for either why it doesn't seem to be among those used by the most reputable of detailers and refinishers, or why, when applied by a detailer, typically costs 50% less. You may not be able to eliminate the entire expense, but you can certainly try to compel them to reduce the amount they charge to a "reasonable" one (though how choosing to detail a new vehicle would be "reasonable" is a mystery and another question to which I'm sure they'd offer an amusing, if not plausible, answer).
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Replying to: madlock (Jun 29, 2009 9:58 am) |
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Picked one up at Royal Oak Ford, Royal Oak MI. There were they found and extra $2250 of incentives without my asking. Thank you Royal Oak Ford. Awesome, no pressure shopping. If you live in the Royal Oak area see John Agnello, he was very knowledgeable and courteous. Here's the breakdown: $34,900 MSRP for a 2009 Ford Flex SEL, Cinnamon metallic w/ white roof, medium light stone leather, SYNC, 2nd row captains/console w/ push button seat flip, roof rails, rubber mats. -$1950 X-Plan discount -$3500 Cash back -$1500 First 3 payments incentive -$1500 GM owner cash incentive -$750 Potential buyer certificate Total - $25,700 +tax/title/fees This is a sweet ride but it feels even sweeter when you get a great deal!
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Replying to: duece248 (Jul 22, 2009 12:16 pm) Did you bring the brochure for the discount in yourself? Congratulations.
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Replying to: madlock (Jul 22, 2009 11:18 pm) No brochure was needed they just gave me the discount. My salesman just called me up and said "you qualify for an extra $750 off" I was like OK!! I definitely feel lucky to have worked with an honest dealership. I did my research and knew of the extra incentives but I didn't even have to ask. My next car will definitly will be purchased at Royal Oak Ford. I know this sounds like a sales pitch but I've had horrible treatment from some GM dealerships. Just trying to get the price they "advertise" was a pain. With GM's lack of quality it was a no brainer to jump on the Ford bandwagon. And, man, did it payoff! |
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Replying to: golic (Dec 02, 2008 6:09 am)
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