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Automotive News & Views Is There Really Such a Thing as a "Lemon"?
122 messages, Last post on Aug 25, 2008 at 7:41 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Actually, for Honda and Toyota badged vehicles, its more than people want to admit. Why do people have a problem admitting to bad Japanese quality? From my experience, it seems to be quite the opposite. Owners of domestic vehicles (primarily 1970s and 1980s) rarely complained about "minor" problems which inflated their "good" numbers giving them a better quality rating than they should have had. If/when they bought a Japanese (or European) car, they suddenly realized that some of those problems they overlooked don't have to be there at all. My family has owned a number of Japanese, American, and European vehicles in the past 40 years. The Japanese cars probably had the best reliability of any with an early (1974) Subaru running for eight years before being sold to a friend and a 1991 Suzuki that's been in the family since new without a major problem. Also there's the 1995 Acura, 2002 Toyota Sienna, 2007 Toyota Camry, 1982 Toyota Corolla...nary a problem among them. On the flip side, there was the Olds Calais that lost its engine before 70,000 miles, the Chevrolet Celebrity that barely made it to the dealer to be traded in, and I won't go into the Ford Granada, Ford Pinto, rattly Dodge Neon, etc. My point is if you can provide a story of a family of "bad" Toyotas, I can give you more families of "excellent" experiences. The good stories are the norm, the bad ones are the anomalies. They're not infalible, but they are better than average. |
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Well the problem is that you only have anecdotal evidence, which is true as far as it goes, but in fact it doesn't go any further than your personal experiences. When statistical evidence, rather than anecdotal, is applied, brands like Toyota and Honda really are much better than domestic cars overall. Further proof if you will is their outstanding success in the marketplace. One would have to assume that American car buyers are stupid if they buy inferior products, and especially stupid if they pay higher prices for those inferior products. And REALLY stupid in that they KEEP buying these inferior products. There's just no case to suggest that Toyota isn't one of the best made cars in the world. This is not to say that domestic products haven't gotten BETTER--they most certainly have. But you know what they say: "When you are first out of the gate by a long shot, it's very hard for anyone to catch you". |
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I don't understand. I guess I am the one in every crowd. The one that can honestly admit Japanese quality is a sham. I will gladly write you a check for the amount I spent to keep my 2003 Accord running for 65,000 miles if you will write me a check for the amount of money I spent keeping a 1995 Dodge Neon running for 65K miles!!!!  Trust me, I'll come out a much richer man for it, as the Accord's costs were in-line with typical Honda tradition and stayed in the single digits for 65,000 miles. That digit would be 0 (zero). Now the Neon... whoa baby! Not quite 5 digits, but you'd be surprised how much a cheap car can end up costing more than an expensive one would have in the long run. Heck, I'd of probably come out ahead financially buying a Benz!
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Replying to: andres3 (Aug 07, 2008 3:31 pm) 
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Replying to: jipster (Aug 07, 2008 5:36 pm) Yes, after having lived through the domestic ownership experience provided to me by Chrysler through their Neon, I had to go to the other extreme of reliability and get an Accord. THANK GOD the 2003 models came out with a wonderful redesign that didn't bore me to death like the older generation model would have. So I got to have my cake (reliability) and eat it too, with icing on top (great redesign, looks, power, efficiency).
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Replying to: andres3 (Aug 08, 2008 8:30 am)
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Replying to: lemmer (Aug 08, 2008 1:08 pm) indeed.
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Replying to: nippononly (Aug 09, 2008 9:41 am) That car wasn't so bad. The 100LS was a disaster, that's true.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Aug 09, 2008 9:48 am) 
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I think I actually prefer the style of the '98-02 to the '03+. But for my tastes at least, the '03-07 is a much better car all around. I know the EPA will say otherwise, but for me, 2003 was when the Accord finally became a midsized car. It took awhile for the style of the '03 to grow on me, but I always found them comfortable, nice riding, and just big enough inside. And to be fair, often it does take a couple years for a new style to grow on me. I hated the look of the '98 Concorde and Intrepid when they first came out, but I ended up with an '00 Intrepid a couple years later. So it couldn't have been THAT ugly. 
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