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Automotive News & Views How does gas at $4 and higher impact you?
2183 messages, Last post on Nov 21, 2009 at 5:13 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: larsb (Jan 19, 2009 6:49 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 19, 2009 7:03 am) I'm not talking about historical communism, at all, in any way I'm talking about people making small personal sacrifices for the goal of the common good.
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Replying to: larsb (Jan 19, 2009 7:30 am) To get back on the subject. I don't see where raising fuel taxes so that we pay as much as they do in the EU is a small personal sacrifice. It may be for you or me, how about the family on food stamps and barely making the rent? I am sure $4 dollar gas did a lot of harm in this current recession. |
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Replying to: larsb (Jan 19, 2009 5:57 am) Great choices. Anarchy or Communism. Isn't there a door #3 Monty? This past summer when gas topped off at $4.35/gallon it was taking $1 out of every $9 I made just to pay for the gas to get to work. That is unsustainable in the long run. If taxes on gas pushed the price back to that level I might as well quit and go on the dole. Are you ready to support me and my family?
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Replying to: oldfarmer50 (Jan 19, 2009 9:13 am)
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Replying to: oldfarmer50 (Jan 19, 2009 9:13 am) No, but I have done things with your family's future in mind, as well as Gary's, mine, and everyone else: Bought hybrids. Recycled like a madman. Bought a Segway. Rode a bike and bussed to work. Reduced my carbon footprint as much as possible by spending about $9K on energy-efficient equipment for my home. Preaching energy conservatism (and conservation) at every chance.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 19, 2009 9:27 am) GOOD FOR YOU, Gary. That's exactly the sort of "small personal sacrifice" I was talking about. |
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Replying to: larsb (Jan 19, 2009 7:30 am) So much hangs on how you arrive at the "common good". If you depend on the political process to define the "common good", you end up with abominations like the farm subsidy program, whereby tens of billions of tax dollars find their way into the pockets of 1 percent of the population according to formulas that only a handful of experts pretend to understand. While the beneficiaries of this largesse may loudly insist that this arrangement somehow advances the "common good", I strongly suspect that most of the 99% of us on the losing side would strenuously disagree. As a classical liberal (not to be confused with a welfare liberal), I'd prefer to say that the "common good" is whatever results when free men & women are left alone to live their lives as they see fit. If some of them choose to make "small personal sacrifices" to promote their individual visions of the "common good", that's fine with me - just as long as we keep politics out of this. Does anyone here really believe that holding political office somehow uniquely qualifies a person to determine what constitutes the "common good" for the rest of us? As far as taxes are concerned, it's not surprising that I'd rather see them lower - not higher - because higher taxes would only pay for more stuff that most of us neither want nor need. Still, I will go out on a limb & say that I would support higher gasoline taxes - but only if income taxes are sharply reduced or, better yet, eliminated entirely. In my view, the "common good" is best served by taxing consumption - including fuel purchases - instead of income. Why punish productive behavior? |
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Replying to: larsb (Jan 19, 2009 9:40 am) Sorry, my family can't eat good intentions, we'll take cash please.
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Replying to: oldfarmer50 (Jan 19, 2009 4:39 pm) Sorry, my family can't eat good intentions, we'll take cash please. Thanks for saying that. I was about to toss out the Bandini flag on that as well. Someone that proposes higher taxes for fuel is doing nothing for me or my family they are doing it for their own personal agenda. First they try to cajole us into conserving. When the people conserve by reducing their consumption by 6 percent they complain their tax revenue is down so they may have to raise it. Is that by any stretch of the imagination for the greater good? If we cut back even more will they have to tax even more? Most of us know cow manure when we hear it and when we hear raise fuel taxes for a better America it smacks of cow manure. Someone mentions that they use more oil for heating and the response of the "concerned" tax raiser is, "well suck it up brother it is for the greater good." Sounds like someone would like to turn all the stars on our flag red. We point out higher fuel taxes will raise food prices, "Suck it up it is for the greater good.' Public transportation will cost more, "suck it up it is for the greater good." Air travel will cost more and some airlines will close, "suck it up it is for the greater good." Low wage people will not be able to afford to get to work or their employers will not be able to afford as many employees, "suck it up brother it is for the greater good." Who the heck is this greater good person? So far all I see is an attempt to attack the working class in their paycheck. $4.00 gas hurt the average driver in the US and "no one questions that "fact". $2.00 gas has given the American public some relief and no one questions that "fact". Raise the fuel back to $4.00 with taxes will be no less damaging to the economy that $4.00 fuel was without the taxes. To suggest otherwise deserves the Bandini flag and and a 15 yard penalty for roughing the consumer.
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