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Automotive News & Views How does gas at $4 and higher impact you?
2183 messages, Last post on Nov 21, 2009 at 5:13 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: steve_ (Jan 16, 2009 8:50 pm) We have been taught most of our life that if we forget history we are doomed to repete it. The tax one side and give back in refunds idea doesn't work. Remember when credit cards were tax deductible? Remember why we were told they "had" to stop the deduction? Houses are taxed and the tax increases with the value of the house. Taxed based on size and value. Did that stop people from buying big houses? Why not, it is the very same logic? Because if you give the tax back through deductions people take that into account. The second thing a gas tax will do is force the working class into living closer to where they work. That will drive the prices of homes and rent in those areas up and divide our society once more by class. The ones that will pay through the nose will be the people working in department stores, restarants, hardware stores and coffee shops. You also get a chance to hit the consumer twice. Once by devaluing their current ride and a second time by raising the price of the little cracker box you want people to drive. Increasing gas taxes at this time will be like sticking another knife in the public's back. More people will be out of work, more homes will default and the companies that we are now supporting with our tax money will have to ask for another trillion dollars to make it another year. It is so easy and so predictable to hear someone respond to a problem with, "lets increase taxes and throw money at the problem." It doesn't matter how many times that solution doesn't work it is still dragged out till the goose is finally killed. Maybe if an executive of the print media would stop and think about who buys their magazines and papers they would see why people aren't buying their product like they used to. If they have to decide between a magazine or gas for their car they will opt for gas. Could that be another reason the New York Times and other papers are in such trouble? The manufacturers just got several billion dollars to build more fuel efficient car. They more than likely will get several billion more after the new president gets in office if they can't build these cars with 50 billion dollars why would they be able to do it because we gave the government more of our money in taxes? The government is telling us that we need a tax break and a stimulus check to get the economy back on its feet. These are the people that the article believes should tax us?
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Replying to: boaz47 (Jan 17, 2009 8:58 am) Learned a little on motor week this morning. The Jetta TDI was featured along with a Camry vs Malibu hybrid comparison. The Purdue intern that worked by me last summer hit a tire in the road, lying on it's side. $7000 damage and a month in the shop for his Jetta 'premium sedan'. All the handling in the world is useless with a 8' curb on the left and a car alongside to the right. Diesel is up there compared to gas. They averaged 39 mpg in the '09 TDI on a 55 mph country road. The hybrid comparison pointed out that they are two different types of hybrids. The Malibu hybrid mainly comes into play in traffic light to traffic light driving and gives little boost in a 0-60 race. The camry has electric boost on the hwy too and saves more gas overall and costs more. It has 2 less seconds to 60 mph. They used $4 gas to compare the overall costs between the two. The Camry averaged 32.2 mpg and the malibu 29.5 mpg in their side by side test. They said the $1200 Hybrid tax credit was gone for the Camry which made the Camry $2600 more expensive. At $4 a gallon, they said it would take 250,000 miles to financially break even with the Camry. They did not include interest or tax on the $2600, which would probably make it closer to a half million miles to get even. At $2 gas, the break even point is a half million miles without tax or interest. |
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We saw last summer that high enough gas prices influence consumer behavior. In the spring and summer when gas prices peaked, consumers dashed to small, more fuel-efficient vehicles. As soon as they subsided from their peaks, we saw consumers ease back to higher gas-consuming SUVs and trucks. Is this true? Truck and larger SUV sales are climbing when December '08 is compared to Feb '08? (before run up to after run down in fuel prices). When gas goes up, food does too. Tax food more? 47 million don't have health care and our biggest concern is if the carpenter driving to work to make money to feed his 8 kids in -10 degree weather in Minnesota is paying enough gas tax to be pushed into an econobox that costs 5x what his pickup is worth, and do what with his ladder and the plywood?
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| We wouldn't want the new Civic factory to not be running at full capacity. They do it right in Japan. Shouldn't we maximize how much profits we send there? | |
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Replying to: dave8697 (Jan 17, 2009 12:58 pm) You don't understand, the proponents of these taxing schemes could care less what happens to these "little people". they would gladly sacrifice you, me and your little dog too. The motivation may be personal greed, desire for power or some misguided notion of saving the planet, but make no mistake, they will walk over anyone to achieve their goals.
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Replying to: oldfarmer50 (Jan 17, 2009 3:21 pm) There is little difference with taxation to control behavior. Once they tax fuel out of the reach of the masses, they will find out what rebellion is.
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Replying to: oldfarmer50 (Jan 17, 2009 3:21 pm) what would we gain by higher fuel taxes? We gave a trillion dollars to the banks and they aren't lending money anyway. They are using the money to buy out other banks but that was a trillion of our tax dollars they tossed down the drain. To top it off their corporate fuel expenses and tax deductible so raising fuel taxes isn't going to effect then one little bit. "Fire up the Lear George I want to fly to Atlanta for dinner." These are the people that we should want to give more of our taxes to? What are we missing? If people can't afford to drive to work with a car they already have because gas costs $2.00 a gallon what good is it going to do if they have to pay $3.00 or $3.50? And if they can't afford the $3.50 a gallon how in Gods green earth are they going to afford 20K for a new car that gets a bit better fuel mileage but now takes more expensive fuel? I saw again, the incoming president said this week we need tax relief and stimulus packages and we need them now. Where does that leave increasing fuel taxes? Give to the right hand and take from the left? The very idea of increasing fuel taxes at this time is cruel.
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Replying to: boaz47 (Jan 17, 2009 4:48 pm) They would accept the punishment of higher gas taxes themselves for the sick pleasure they get watching the guy in a Hummer filling up with $100 worth of gas. My response to those that want higher gas tax. Catch the next flight to London. There are plenty each day. You can waste money on gas tax till your heart is satisfied then come home to the good ole USA and keep your stupid ideas to yourself. Our politicians do not need help thinking of ways to screw US out of our hard earned money. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 17, 2009 4:10 pm) A horrible what? Anyway, here are two worlds. Which would you rather live in? 1. World where every man fends for himself. No laws, no guvmints, no organizations. Ultimate freedom. Anyone can kill or be killed at random. 2. World where the people work together, share in the bounty and the work and are protected from killing one another by laws. If you think #1 is best, then you were born about 5,000 years too late. As far as how expensive gas affects me? Without high prices I tend to waste money and gas more freely and successfully rationalize it based on "at least it's not $4 a gallon anymore!"
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Replying to: larsb (Jan 19, 2009 5:57 am) Come on larsb; if you want us to think you intelligent use proper grammar - "Better" for a comparision of 2 things; "best" is for 3 or more. Also you should know what you list are just the extremes on a pendulum. There are a lot of options in-between. This country was founded on being slightly closer to 1 than 2. There are basic laws set, with a multitude of rights for individual freedom - which don't necessarily mean people act for the greater-good, or for everyone's incomes to be the same. Now I and everyone else who is not wealthy, and heat with oil do not want high prices. Personally I use as much or more oil for heating, than transportation. Also my electric company was looking for a 10% rate hike due to the high cost of oil, but have since reduced that to 3%. This leads me to believe that some of our electric power generation is coming from burning oil.
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