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Automotive News & Views How does gas at $4 and higher impact you?
2183 messages, Last post on Nov 21, 2009 at 5:13 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 04, 2008 9:28 am) "I'm afraid you are right. I think his big thing is currency manipulation. Keep the market volatile and he makes money. Stability is a curse word to guys like Soros. " Also ditto to OF50's comment re: Obama. Yah GS has been ticked at GWB for a long time. Short term oil may rise as the drop from$147 to $60~ ish has resembled an elevator with no brakes. Signs still point to a cold winter and now that anxiety has eased a bit we can pay some attention to opec's possible second output cut. For a while. Long term trend still down. Something to ponder in the coming months. WWGSD ? Soros do. Short the world currencies in favor of the dollar since we are a refuge in troubled times? Buy properties from ECB's and the US Govt for a song? My guess, slowly accumulate hard assets since the recession will be shorter than generally predicted, to be in place when inflation rears it's ugly head once more. Given the printing press speed in DC as BTO said, " You ain't seen nothing yet". |
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We all get to ride on a high speed train..  LOS ANGELES (AP) - California voters are green-lighting the nation's most ambitious high-speed rail system, approving a nearly $10 billion bond to put speeding bullet trains capable of topping 200 mph between the state's major metropolitan areas. The measure, which passed with 52 percent support Tuesday, will fund the first phase of what is projected to be a $45 billion, 800-mile project built with state, federal, local and private money. Backers sold the proposal as an innovative alternative to soaring airfares and gas prices. In the closing weeks of the campaign, they touted estimates that it would create nearly 160,000 construction-related jobs and 450,000 permanent jobs. Hmmmm, 450,000 permanent jobs. So with wages and benefits that comes to about $33 billion per year. Wonder how many passengers that will take to pay for? Most realistic figures peg the overall cost at $90 billion. The state is currently broke. Many cities are laying off cops and firefighters. Makes you wonder where people have their heads. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 06, 2008 8:57 am) With Obama at the helm in the White House and a majority in both Houses, his vision for 'change' and his version of FDR's 'New Deal,' we can hopefully have the trains operating within 6 years with the entire network completed by 2020. The 800-mile rail line would link Anaheim, Los Angeles, Fresno and San Francisco. Project planners also want to eventually add Sacramento, San Diego and Oakland. "The citizens of California have put the 21st century golden spike in the ground," pronounced Quentin Kopp, chairman of the California High-Speed Rail Authority. No more congested airports, no more removing belts and shoes for security, no more dreaded drive down Highway 5 and contributing to the smog of LA. Instead you'll be able to sit back and relax while traveling up to speeds of 200mph. You'll arrive inspired with plenty of time to see Mickey and his friends. No doubt, the trip will be in an air-conditioned, sound-proofed cabin, with comfortable seats, big windows and plenty of leg room. You'll even be able to enjoy in a nice glass of wine, perhaps take a nap, or catch up on some reading. For the busy business commuters and techaholics there will even be wi-fi connections available for use. The rest of the modern world has enjoyed the benefits of high speed rail for several decades now and it is about time the Golden State caught up with the implementation of slick mass transit, especially if we are serious about cutting back on pollution and wasting millions of hours each year sitting in traffic. And: Questions & Answers Will the high-speed train system create new jobs and boost our economy? Yes. The statewide high-speed train project will require us to draw upon and expand California’s skilled workforce, creating nearly 160,000 construction-related jobs to plan, design and build the system. An additional 450,000 permanent jobs are expected to be created by 2035 as a result of the economic growth the train system will bring to California. High speed trains will further boost California’s economy by: * Improving the movement of people, goods and services throughout the state; * Generating more than $1 billion in annual revenue surplus; * Reducing travel times for train riders; * Reducing delays to air and auto travelers as freeways and airports are relieved of congestion; * Reducing air pollution and related health care costs; * Reducing auto accident fatalities and injuries and related health care costs. How much does our broken transportation system cost our economy? California has three of the top five most congested urban areas in the United States. Right now, congestion costs approximately $20 billion per year in wasted fuel and lost time. What would be the cost of expanding our highways and airports to meet future intercity demands instead of building the high-speed train system? To serve the same number of travelers as the high-speed train system, California would have to build nearly 3,000 lane-miles of freeway plus five airport runways and 90 departure gates by 2020 – costing more than twice the high-speed train system and having much greater environmental impacts. What’s more, the proposed high-speed train system will provide lower passenger costs than for travel by automobile or air for the same city-to-city markets. See, Gary, it's not just money down the trash compactor. It will GENERATE revenue and SAVE wasted gas money and pollution. Don't be such a hater, dude !!! |
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While I applaud the intent of the visionaries to begin the planning process, I have a few questions: 1) Will this be built from the ground up, or will it attempt to use existing rail lines? 2) If the answer to #1 is "from the ground up", I cannot begin to imagine the problems with acquiring the right-of-way to build this rail line. The sheer number of local governments (city and county) that would have to give approval is mind-boggling. 3) Like Gary pointed out above, unless the cost of a ticket is equal to or less than an airline ticket between LA and SF, it's unlikely that there will be much adoption. Now, having said that, my folks live in CA and use the train frequently from their hometown north of LA to San Diego to see my sister and her family. Yes, it takes longer than it does to drive, but as my folks are in their 70's, the relaxed experience makes it worth their while. |
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Replying to: michaell (Nov 06, 2008 9:59 am)
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Replying to: michaell (Nov 06, 2008 9:59 am) 2) Right of way has already been established and they are just in the process of finalizing the route. This project is not starting today, it has been around a number of years already, and a lot of this preliminary planning work has already been completed. This bond measure was essentially to finance the next phase of this massive project. 3) Ticket costs should equal plane ticket costs, I think. As such, you are correct that it may not find many takers initially. However, you have to consider the ENORMOUS hassles associated with flying these days, the wasted time, the inconvenience and poor service at every stage of the trip, etc. I think overall this is needed for California's future, although just like Gary I question the timing of it and its ability to be self-sustaining economically. Of course, these are long-term bonds, so no repayment will be required on them until we are well out of the current recession. As for the self-sustaining question, well the airlines can't do it, so I'm not sure how the bullet train will either. Having ridden these trains in Europe, I have to say that you will never take a trip under 1000 miles on a plane again once you have tried the high-speed train once. The comfort, the absence of all the airport hassles, the enormous advantage the trains have in being able to stay on schedule even during holiday periods and not lose your luggage while they do it, there is just no comparison.
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On the Alternate Route I'm wondering why decreasing demand for oil and gas is viewed as a bad thing.  Slippery Slopes
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Replying to: pf_flyer (Nov 06, 2008 10:34 am) |
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Replying to: nippononly (Nov 06, 2008 10:23 am) I think high speed passenger trains would require new tracks anyway, and separation from the freight tracks would be good. That's the European model. Getting the right of way could be a daunting issue. |
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Replying to: nippononly (Nov 06, 2008 10:23 am) I moved from California to Colorado about 15 years ago, so am not as current on the in-state issues as I used to be. I hadn't realized that they were attempting to use existing SP rail lines. Not long after I moved to Colorado, my ex and my son came to visit .. they took the train (California Zephyr, with the observation cars). IIRC, there was a problem in Utah and they were stuck there for many hours, which put them horribly behind schedule. The California Zephyr still runs daily between Chicago and San Francisco, though the original CZ ran between Chicago and LA. EDIT: Nope, I was wrong - the CZ always ran between Chicago and SF. BTW, are there still plans to build a high speed rail line between LA and Vegas? That idea has been kicked around for about 25 years.
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Automotive News & Views How does gas at $4 and higher impact you?
