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Automotive News & Views How does gas at $4 and higher impact you?
2183 messages, Last post on Nov 21, 2009 at 5:13 PM
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Replying to: larsb (Oct 15, 2008 7:46 am) We didn't realize we had to read your posts like a legal agreement  If you don't put "I Predict", what are the statements - hearsay, assumption, your wishes?  But it is not you who were so insistent on gas prices would stay high. I think it was kdh, who insisted that he knew the U.S. and the rest of the world economies would simply pay $0.50/gal more per year. To which I kept saying that people especially in the developing world could not pay these sorts of increases based on their incomes. News alert !! No bubble! - whether Internet stocks, housing prices, or skyrocketing oil prices is sustainable!
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Replying to: kernick (Oct 15, 2008 8:31 am) If you don't specify, people ASSUME things about what you mean. To make oneself as clear as possible, specificity is required.....
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| ...have remained pretty consistant regardless of the cost of fuel - I always prefered a four door full-sized domestic sedan. The only concession I made this time is that I mostly drive a V-6 sedan versus a V-8. | |
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Replying to: lemko (Oct 15, 2008 8:53 am) (moving to the USA soon, at least temporarily) ... First comment is that over here 1 US gallon of gas costs 8 USD at the moment, and the only reason it went up is because the dollar went down compared to the Euro (used to be 6-ish USD before the exchange rate fell). I'm actually a bit, well, intimidated by US cars. The normal European city/town car would be something like a Toyota Yaris, a family car would be more along the size of the Toyota Corolla. (The more commonly seen small European makes like the Peugeot 207 don't seem to be around in the US much.) I have no idea why I would want a bigger car, and I'm still not completely comfortable getting used to driving (parking / turning with, etc.) anything bigger. I don't actually personally know anyone who owns a car that does less than 30-35 mpg (US). I'm actually idly wondering why this "big car" culture developed in the US - especially given the distances, fuel economy does make a difference ... Two other random things I was wondering about ... I've seen on Edmunds some "fuel saving" advice, including not to fill 87 octane fuel in a car that needs 91 ... I haven't seen fuel below 95 octane in Europe for probably 15 years - and I don't mean Monte Carlo, I mean Romania, the shadowy depths of poor Eastern Europe ... What is normal gas in the US? The second thing I was wondering about is speed limits ... Most US cars are a few sizes bigger and more powerful than the ones here - the highways are good quality and wide (been over the pond a few times already, seen and marvelled) ... But the "normal" speed limit on the highways is around 65 mph - here that's the speed limit on country roads outside towns ... highways have at least 80 mph if they have a limit at all. Again I wonder, because distances in the US are much bigger - here that 10% doesn't make a difference ... there it does. Just curious if it has any particular technical reason ... Anyway - good luck to everyone surviving the price hike, and join you soon on the other side ... |
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Replying to: mivadar (Oct 15, 2008 12:09 pm) The reason for the big vehicles is that here fuel has been dirt cheap until recently. With available income about the same one could afford 'more vehicle' here because the price of fuel was a lot lower then in Europe. Also because of the wide open spaces a larger more comfortable ride became the norm. It was nothing for NY'ers to choose to drive to Florida for vacation ( 1900 km ) since fuel was so cheap. That's roughly the distance from Helsinki to Milano. Compact vehicles like the Corolla and Civic are now making a huge step forward in the mind of the public simply because they do get 30-40 mpg day in and day out. Here in NA the standard fuel is 87 Octane. All the modern fuel efficient vehicles are set up to use only 87. As regards speed limits 65 - 85 mph is the normal range of speeds on the Interstate System. |
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Replying to: mivadar (Oct 15, 2008 12:09 pm) - Long distances between points - Americans tend to be larger people - Most domestic cars are manufactured in the Midwest where roads tend to be long and straight and this affects the design philosophy - Traditionally, many domestic buyers wanted to be isolated from the driving experience as much as possible and a larger car tends to have a smoother, more comfortable ride Personally, I like the proportions of a longer, lower, and wider car opposed to one that is short and upright. I'm also a rather tall person and would feel cramped in something like a Yaris. Wow, you have 95+ octane in Europe? Regular fuel in the U.S. is 87 octane and premium fuel is 93-94 octane. There is CAM-2 racing fuel which is around 103 octane, but it's scarce and expensive. I wasn't driving back when most cars ran on leaded fuel, but I heard 100 octane fuel was common. As for the thing about speed limits, I'll never get that one. I tend to drive whatever speed is reasonable due to road and weather conditions. There's a whole discussion on going back to the 55 MPH speed limit in another Edmunds topic.
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Replying to: mivadar (Oct 15, 2008 12:09 pm) I can think of a few reasons. First off, fuel economy in the US really only becomes a major concern whenever fuel gets expensive or scarce, or the economy is bad. But as soon as the times improve, and the fuel gets flowing again, at lower prices, people start flocking back to bigger, thirstier vehicles. We're just used to cheap gas. Also, American cars, until fairly recently, tended to not be very space-efficient. There's also a "small cars = small profits" mentality that the domestics have battled with for ages now, and just can't get out of their corporate heads, so they tend to not put their best efforts into them. So often you'd end up with a big American car that was not only more comfortable, better built, and more powerful, but also handled better and even got similar fuel economy to a smaller car. So the only real advantage the smaller car would give you would be that it's easier to maneuver in really tight spaces. And by and large, that's not as big of a deal in the US as it is in Europe. But the "normal" speed limit on the highways is around 65 mph - here that's the speed limit on country roads outside towns ... highways have at least 80 mph if they have a limit at all. Again I wonder, because distances in the US are much bigger - here that 10% doesn't make a difference ... there it does. Just curious if it has any particular technical reason ... Yes, there is a reason...American drivers suck! 
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Replying to: lemko (Oct 15, 2008 12:55 pm) In most countries (including all of Europe and Australia) the "headline" octane rating, shown on the pump, is the RON, but in the United States, Canada and some other countries the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, sometimes called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI), Road Octane Number (RdON), Pump Octane Number (PON), or (R+M)/2. Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, the octane shown in the United States is 4 to 5 points lower than the same fuel elsewhere: 87 octane fuel, the "regular" gasoline in the US and Canada, is 91-92 in Europe. However most European pumps deliver 95 (RON) as "regular", equivalent to 90-91 US (R+M)/2, and some even deliver 98 (RON) or 100 (RON).[
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While this board likes to bash the SUV, there are very logical reasons to own one. The obvious is comfort and roominess. Also the ease of getting in and out is much better than the average full size sedan. Forget the econobox which requires a masochistic contortion of the body to get in or out. Now the main reason. As our infrastructure in this country deteriorates as it currently is doing. If you travel off the main highways or Interstates you will find a lot of potholes and bad roads. The SUV is your best bet for our future roads. If you can afford a diesel SUV it will give you close to the same mileage as a small sedan. No doubt the econobox wins the prize for pure economy. That is one point for, 4 points against. A nice SUV is a no brainer, unless gas goes back up in price. Better get that SUV while they are being discounted heavily. They will be tough to find when the roads all go to hell. 
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Replying to: gagrice (Oct 15, 2008 3:52 pm) Comfort = poor handling Roominess = limited maneuverability downtown My car requires nothing anything like a "masochistic contortion of the body to get in or out", and it's a subcompact. The other car is a compact, no masochism going on there either. So I think you have to agree your remarks are very POV-centric. Now you may have a point regarding the really awful roads we have in the States, especially in totally negligent California. But I'm not going to be buying something with all those disadvantages just so I don't have to drive around potholes. And I should add that I am most encouraged to see the massive project California has undertaken this year to repave almost every bad mile of I-80 between the Bay Area and the Nevada border. It has gone very quickly, and driving on the new pavement is like driving on glass. The resurfacing has not only gone very quickly, but has also been of high quality. Some of the parts over the Sierra are going to take longer to finish, but maybe they are going to turn this thing around in the next couple of years, and make all the roads passable again....
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