Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 10:55 AM
You are in the Saturn Outlook
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Saturn Outlook, SUV
#399 of 519 Re: Leaky Sunroof - 07 Saturn Outlook [thegumbogirl]
Jun 14, 2012 (5:54 pm)
The gumbo girl, You need to check to see if that was already done. Most of the post are from people like myself that had the extension done per the bulletin and it failed. This is where the Secret Warranty comes in - the repairs done to prevent these issues happened. We purchased our 2007 Outlook last June and when we got the records it indicated it had been down. This is the leg we have to stand on... GM put this service bulletin out to the public making us aware of the defect and repairs failed. Here is more information on the secret warranty. GM paid for all of our repairs.
Keywords: Manufacturers often stonewall the consumer over secret warranties knowing that many consumers will give up in utter frustration and go away mad. Don't.
Tell the local media about your secret warranty problem. Many consumers get reimbursed because a local Action Line, newspaper or television station starts to take an interest in a secret warranty. After all, if a manufacturer is trying to keep a secret warranty secret, the last thing the company wants is publicity on the secret warranty. A particularly good strategy is to announce the formation of a group to expose the particular secret warranty affecting your car. Even if the group is small as you and your neighbor, a group is powerful and attracts more attention than an individual.
Small Claims Court
Manufacturers often stonewall the consumer over secret warranties knowing that many consumers will give up in utter frustration and go away mad. Don't. Take the documentation on the secret warranty and your repair efforts to small claims court. At this point, it's the manufacturer who often gives up knowing that the legal rights are on the consumer's side. The manufacturer relies on its own complaint handling mechanism to wear down consumers. once you show you won't be beat by the manufacturer's complaint handling mechanism, you should succeed. The manufacturer will finally recognize its responsibility for the defect in your car and reimburse you.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. The consumers who complain the loudest get reimbursed under secret warranties. The good customer who goes away quietly gets ripped off. Until auto companies wake up and realize that consumer protection is good business, consumers have to be aggressive or they will wind up paying for an auto company's mistake. Since billions of dollars in repairs are covered by secret warranties, the total benefit to consumers in exercising their rights is enormous.
Secret warranties are a multi-billion consumer abuse. Every auto company makes mistakes in building cars. Whether they are design defects that affect every car or whether they are manufacturing defects which affect only some cars, they must be repaired. The only question is who pays for the manufacturers' mistakes, the manufacturer or the consumer. Although the auto manufacturer often establishes a secret warranty to pay for the repair, all too often it is the consumer who pays for the manufacturer's mistake because the consumer never finds out about the secret warranty. That's wrong and the Center for Auto Safety wants to change it.
In a 1987 report the Center for Auto Safety (CAS) created national headlines by identifying 10 exemplary secret warranties covering 30 million vehicles and $3 billion in repair costs. Yet this is but the tip of the iceberg for we estimate that at any one time over 500 secret warranties exist for all auto companies. According to a Toyota whistleblower who provided a complete list in May 1988, Toyota alone had 41 secret warranties at that time.
By exposing secret warranties, CAS forces manufacturers to pay for their mistakes and creates a strong incentive for them to build better cars in the future. once secret warranties are disclosed, consumers will save hundreds, if not thousands, in repair bills on their personal cars. Spurred on by CAS exposes, state legislatures are moving to pass secret warranty disclosure laws that will protect consumers. Until then, consumers must rely on the strategies suggested in our book, Little Secrets of the Auto Industry, to discover and use secret warranties to pay for repairs in their vehicles.
What is a secret warranty?
Auto companies hate the term secret warranties. They call them policy adjustments, good will programs, service campaigns or extended warranties . But whatever they are called, they are a longstanding industry practice. When a car company has a major defect that occurs after its written warranty expires, it establishes an adjustment policy to pay for repairs rather than deal with many thousands, if not millions, of complaints on a case by case basis. But the auto company communicates the policy only to regional offices and not even always to its dealers. The auto manufacturers never notify the consumer; so only the consumer who complains loudly enough gets covered by the secret warranty. Other consumers end up bearing the costs of the manufacturer's mistakes.
Examples of Secret Warranties
CAS has documented case after case of secret warranties since our founding in 1970. one of the first and most famous was Ford's J-67 Limited Service Program which covered rust on 12 million 1969-72 cars and trucks. In this case a bulletin which went out only to Ford regional offices stated, "This is a limited service program without dealership notification and should be administered on an individual complaint basis." Under this program, Ford would pay up to 100% to repair rust and paint damage on its vehicles even if it cost over a $1000.
CAS has uncovered secret warranties on all auto companies with little differences between them. A 1972 Mazda secret warranty bulletin doubled the coverage for rotary engine damage but cautioned, "Since this is a temporary program which may be terminated at [any] time, owners are not to be informed of the extended coverage." Honda had secret warranties on head gaskets and rusting fenders in the mid-1970's; Chrysler had rusting fenders on Volares and Aspens in the late 1970's; GM had the transmission secret warranty caused by a ban on sperm whale oil as a lubricant; Peugeot and Subaru both covered defective head gaskets; and VW covered valve stem seals.
Secret warranties soared after 1980 when the federal government dropped all efforts to ban them. GM had a 5 year/50,000 mile secret warranty covering repair of defective rack and pinion power steering systems on all 16 million of its 1981-88 front wheel drive cars. Toyota covered pulsating brakes on its 1983-86 Camry in a $100 million secret warranty. Ford never told owners of its 1985-92 F-series pickups that America's most popular truck had peeling paint because Ford skipped the primer layer. According to Nissan documents provided to CAS by a whistleblower in 1990, Nissan had at one time up to 48 secret warranties covering various cars and trucks.
There is no doubt that auto manufactur
#400 of 519 Re: Leaky Sunroof - 07 Saturn Outlook [thegumbogirl]
Jun 14, 2012 (5:56 pm)
If you live in California you can contact a lawyer that deals with Product liability. I think it's against the rules on this site to mention the law firm however it is on the Saturn-Gm Outlook and Arcadia lemons page on Facebook. The law firm gave me permission to mention this firm that is located in San Francisco. I recently contacted them and gave them a wealth of information but unfortunately I don't live in California and the laws don't apply to me. However, they said by all the information on our car I provided them we definitively had a case if we lived in CA. I hope those in California can receive some justice and help with GM. The law in CA is not only Lemon Law but breach of warranty of mercantability. This only applies to certain States. It allows a vehicle owner a repurchase if the vehicle has so many problems that it does not meet the legal standard for ordinary goods of this type.If you go to the Facebook page and scroll down there is a story of a man that lives in California that through the Better Business Bureau and due to the laws that apply GM bought his 2007 Saturn Outlook back, no money out of pocket as he was represented by the BBB. Good luck to those that this law applies to, I hope it's helpful information in this unfortunate, injustice problem we are all facing.
#402 of 519 A Successful Fight with GM
Jun 20, 2012 (3:46 am)
I received an email with the following post in it for the message board but now the post is removed or gone. Not sure why. It was post #401. The person mentioned a 20/20 investigation and frankly I am shocked it has not been proposed sooner. I had bought a 2007 new Saturn Outlook. A few months after owning it when it was raining it poured water onto my feet. The dealer kept trying to fix the "leaky" sunroof, said there was a repair for the sunroof, but it never stopped. Then one day my power steering started to fail in the rain. It was dangerous. To make a long story short I filed for lemon law, was fought by GM, they gave me alot of BS for a few months of trying to fix or working with me etc. In the end we went to mediation and I fought them, yes, their big scary corporate lawyer who does this every day all over the country (you know fights the small guy). He was polished and quick witted but in the end the mediator saw through it and awarded me. They had to take the car back and give me back every penny. Which is all I was asking for. Take back your lemon. I still get updates on this forum and it makes me sad to see that all of you are still going through the same problems car after car. If you can get rid of it and play hardball right back with GM. Stay in there it can be done.
#401 Re: Leaky Sunroof - 07 Saturn Outlook [thegumbogirl] by nancy1960 Jun 16, 2012 (11:32 am)
I think this is such an injustice to what is happening to so many owners of Saturn Outlook, Buick Enclave and GMC Arcadia. With the help of all those affected by these water leaks with no fix in sight regardless of repairs we need to have a large voice against GM. We can only exchange certain info on this site (?) and I don't want to violate the rules. I would would like to contact 20/20 Investig...
View/reply at: Re: Leaky Sunroof - 07 Saturn Outlook [thegumbogirl]
#403 of 519 Leaky Sunroof Cars
Jun 20, 2012 (4:18 am)
I just Googled "Leaky Sunroof cars" and along with dozens of websites complaining about the 2007 and 2008 Enclaves, Acadia's and Outlooks, there were several UTube sights that show how to fix a leaky sunroof. IT might be a quick fix until you get a lawyer to fight GM. I still think sending emails to all the Large News Companies and local news stations, in addition to a letter to your Attorney General and filing with the BBB is the only way to get a class action law suit started and won. Nancy1960 has some fantastic information on the secret warranties. I was able to get my Sunroof fixed at their cost the third time it went in. I made sure it didn't leak for a month before trading it in and getting rid of that headache. I am still getting the word out there about these known design flaws with these vehicles.
#404 of 519 Re: A Successful Fight with GM [Tobster1]
Jun 20, 2012 (6:46 am)
Hello Tobster~ The post was removed by Edmunds because I suggested a site that we could go to with the hopes of organizing as a group to proceed with 20/20 regarding Secret Warranties/water leaks with no solution in sight regardless of multiple repairs. I understand Edmunds position and did not intend to violate their rules. I'm grateful for Edmunds, I have gotten a great education here and learned I'm not alone with the leaks. Congratulations on your victory!!
#405 of 519 Re: My 2008 Saturn Outlook won't stop leaking! [bubbles56]
Jun 27, 2012 (12:45 pm)
I have had my 08 Outlook in to the dealer six times. Have been through the tube extensions and all the Service Bulletin fixes. The Chevy service manager says the problem can't be fixed, and it's GOING to leak. He is a former service manager for Saturn when they were in business and knows all about the problem. I will have to take it in every couple months to get the drainage tubes cleaned out. This problem is NOT fixable and my car has a permanent musty smell. I have no recourse - frustrating!
#407 of 519 How to unclog drain tubes on 2008 Outlook
Jun 27, 2012 (11:49 am)
How in the world does one find/unclog the drain tubes on the 2008 Saturn Outlook that are causing all of these problems? We are having the laundry list of water related problems that everyone else has mentioned, with our (purchased new) Outlook. I was searching online hoping to find a tutorial or walk-through on how to unclog the drain lines, since that seems to be a way to prevent further issues. We (I use the term loosely, meaning my husband) would love to know how to take care of this ourselves, as hubby is a very handy guy when it comes to cars, and does almost all of our repairs. I've only been able to find one reference to unclogging saturn drain tubes and it doesn't apply to the outlook. TY in advance for any help!
#408 of 519 Re: My 2008 Saturn Outlook won't stop leaking! [pacamry1]
Jun 28, 2012 (9:56 am)
Thank you for taking the time to post your concerns. Can you please email me directly with your VIN, current mileage, and involved dealer? I apologize for your frustrations. Have you spoke with Customer Assistance? I look forward to hearing from you.
GM Customer Service