Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 10:55 AM
You are in the Saturn Outlook
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Saturn Outlook, SUV
#393 of 519 Re: 2007 saturn outlook sunroof leak [ellimac]
Jun 13, 2012 (1:06 pm)
We're sorry to see that you have encountered a leak multiple times in your Outlook. If we can get a Service Request going for you in our department, after which we would begin to work with your dealership towards hopefully getting this resolved, please send the following information to us at socialmediagm.com: your name/Edmunds username, phone and address, the last 8 of your VIN and current mileage, and the name of your preferred dealership.
GM Customer Service
#394 of 519 Leaky Sunroof - 07 Saturn Outlook
Jun 14, 2012 (11:48 am)
I started googling today out of desparation. I've had my outlook in the stop now 5 or 6 times trying to fix the leaky sunroof and I've had it less than a year. They've checked the drains, replaced the windshield, replaced the glass on the sunroof, replaced the seal on the sunroof, and this last time even told me I was just closing it wrong. It's in the shop again now, the dealership having sent it to a body shop because they don't know what else to do. I've had it leak so badly that we literally stepped into water when we got into the car. I have now had bronchitis 3 times since we got the car last November. Related, I'm not sure. But I will say that I am highly allergic to mold and mildew. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do next?
#395 of 519 Re: Leaky Sunroof - 07 Saturn Outlook [thegumbogirl]
Jun 14, 2012 (1:07 pm)
My suggestion is to get as educated as you can! GM is very much aware of the leaks. They even have staffed people to monitor this site as you can see. There was a service bulletin to extend the drain tubes to prevent the leaks however, that as you well know didn't work. We have had the same repairs done as you have and still have electrical issues. Research this site as best as you can before talking with GM. I wrote letters to the Attorney General , BBB and NHTSA.
Secret Warranty information:
Car Warranties, Recalls and Lemon Laws
Sometimes a manufacturer makes a design or production mistake on a motor vehicle. A service bulletin notifies the dealer of the problem and how to resolve it. Because these free repairs are not publicized, they are called "secret warranties." The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration maintains a database of service bulletins filed by manufacturers.
If you have a problem with a vehicle that is a safety hazard, check whether the manufacturer has recalled your vehicle. Click on Recalls or call NHTSA at 1-800-424-9393.Hazards that aren't listed should be reported to your dealer, the manufacturer of the vehicle, and NHTSA. If a safety-related defect exists, the maker must fix it at no cost to you-even if your warranty has expired.
If you have a vehicle with a unique problem that just never seems to get fixed, you may have a lemon. Some states have laws concerning lemons that require a refund or replacement if a problem is not fixed within a reasonable number of tries or if you haven't been able to use your vehicle for a certain number of days. Contact your local consumer protection office to learn whether you have such protections and what steps you must take to solve your problem. If you believe your car is a lemon:
Give the dealer a list of the problems every time you bring it in for repairs.
Get and keep copies of the repair orders listing the problems, the work done, and the dates the car was in the shop.
Contact the manufacturer, as well as the dealer, to report the problem. Check your owner's manual or the directory for the auto manufacturers.
Help other consumers avoid purchasing your lemon by registering it at safetyforum.com.
The Center for Auto Safety gathers information and complaints concerning safety defects, recalls, service bulletins and state lemon laws.
Also, there is a forum on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/groups/180757711936865/.
Good luck to you and stay strong!
#396 of 519 Re: Leaky Sunroof - 07 Saturn Outlook [nancy1960]
Jun 14, 2012 (1:49 pm)
Thank you so much for your feedback! I'm going to research all of those things tonight!
#397 of 519 Re: Leaky Sunroof - 07 Saturn Outlook [thegumbogirl]
Jun 14, 2012 (1:58 pm)
We're sorry to see that you have had to revisit the dealership so many times on this leaking concern. Have you opened a case through Customer Assistance at this point? If we can do so for you, please send the following information to us at socialmediagm.com: your name/Edmunds username, phone and address, the last 8 of your VIN and current mileage, and the name of your dealership.
GM Customer Service
#398 of 519 Re: Leaky Sunroof - 07 Saturn Outlook [thegumbogirl]
Jun 14, 2012 (2:01 pm)
I just got a call from the dealership where I bought it saying that the body shop found a bulletin saying that the drain tubes needed to be extended. The body shop did it and we'll get it back tomorrow. Hope this fixes it and then the only problem will then be the messed up leather seats and the mold that no one can fix.
#399 of 519 Re: Leaky Sunroof - 07 Saturn Outlook [thegumbogirl]
Jun 14, 2012 (5:54 pm)
The gumbo girl, You need to check to see if that was already done. Most of the post are from people like myself that had the extension done per the bulletin and it failed. This is where the Secret Warranty comes in - the repairs done to prevent these issues happened. We purchased our 2007 Outlook last June and when we got the records it indicated it had been down. This is the leg we have to stand on... GM put this service bulletin out to the public making us aware of the defect and repairs failed. Here is more information on the secret warranty. GM paid for all of our repairs.
Keywords: Manufacturers often stonewall the consumer over secret warranties knowing that many consumers will give up in utter frustration and go away mad. Don't.
Tell the local media about your secret warranty problem. Many consumers get reimbursed because a local Action Line, newspaper or television station starts to take an interest in a secret warranty. After all, if a manufacturer is trying to keep a secret warranty secret, the last thing the company wants is publicity on the secret warranty. A particularly good strategy is to announce the formation of a group to expose the particular secret warranty affecting your car. Even if the group is small as you and your neighbor, a group is powerful and attracts more attention than an individual.
Small Claims Court
Manufacturers often stonewall the consumer over secret warranties knowing that many consumers will give up in utter frustration and go away mad. Don't. Take the documentation on the secret warranty and your repair efforts to small claims court. At this point, it's the manufacturer who often gives up knowing that the legal rights are on the consumer's side. The manufacturer relies on its own complaint handling mechanism to wear down consumers. once you show you won't be beat by the manufacturer's complaint handling mechanism, you should succeed. The manufacturer will finally recognize its responsibility for the defect in your car and reimburse you.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. The consumers who complain the loudest get reimbursed under secret warranties. The good customer who goes away quietly gets ripped off. Until auto companies wake up and realize that consumer protection is good business, consumers have to be aggressive or they will wind up paying for an auto company's mistake. Since billions of dollars in repairs are covered by secret warranties, the total benefit to consumers in exercising their rights is enormous.
Secret warranties are a multi-billion consumer abuse. Every auto company makes mistakes in building cars. Whether they are design defects that affect every car or whether they are manufacturing defects which affect only some cars, they must be repaired. The only question is who pays for the manufacturers' mistakes, the manufacturer or the consumer. Although the auto manufacturer often establishes a secret warranty to pay for the repair, all too often it is the consumer who pays for the manufacturer's mistake because the consumer never finds out about the secret warranty. That's wrong and the Center for Auto Safety wants to change it.
In a 1987 report the Center for Auto Safety (CAS) created national headlines by identifying 10 exemplary secret warranties covering 30 million vehicles and $3 billion in repair costs. Yet this is but the tip of the iceberg for we estimate that at any one time over 500 secret warranties exist for all auto companies. According to a Toyota whistleblower who provided a complete list in May 1988, Toyota alone had 41 secret warranties at that time.
By exposing secret warranties, CAS forces manufacturers to pay for their mistakes and creates a strong incentive for them to build better cars in the future. once secret warranties are disclosed, consumers will save hundreds, if not thousands, in repair bills on their personal cars. Spurred on by CAS exposes, state legislatures are moving to pass secret warranty disclosure laws that will protect consumers. Until then, consumers must rely on the strategies suggested in our book, Little Secrets of the Auto Industry, to discover and use secret warranties to pay for repairs in their vehicles.
What is a secret warranty?
Auto companies hate the term secret warranties. They call them policy adjustments, good will programs, service campaigns or extended warranties . But whatever they are called, they are a longstanding industry practice. When a car company has a major defect that occurs after its written warranty expires, it establishes an adjustment policy to pay for repairs rather than deal with many thousands, if not millions, of complaints on a case by case basis. But the auto company communicates the policy only to regional offices and not even always to its dealers. The auto manufacturers never notify the consumer; so only the consumer who complains loudly enough gets covered by the secret warranty. Other consumers end up bearing the costs of the manufacturer's mistakes.
Examples of Secret Warranties
CAS has documented case after case of secret warranties since our founding in 1970. one of the first and most famous was Ford's J-67 Limited Service Program which covered rust on 12 million 1969-72 cars and trucks. In this case a bulletin which went out only to Ford regional offices stated, "This is a limited service program without dealership notification and should be administered on an individual complaint basis." Under this program, Ford would pay up to 100% to repair rust and paint damage on its vehicles even if it cost over a $1000.
CAS has uncovered secret warranties on all auto companies with little differences between them. A 1972 Mazda secret warranty bulletin doubled the coverage for rotary engine damage but cautioned, "Since this is a temporary program which may be terminated at [any] time, owners are not to be informed of the extended coverage." Honda had secret warranties on head gaskets and rusting fenders in the mid-1970's; Chrysler had rusting fenders on Volares and Aspens in the late 1970's; GM had the transmission secret warranty caused by a ban on sperm whale oil as a lubricant; Peugeot and Subaru both covered defective head gaskets; and VW covered valve stem seals.
Secret warranties soared after 1980 when the federal government dropped all efforts to ban them. GM had a 5 year/50,000 mile secret warranty covering repair of defective rack and pinion power steering systems on all 16 million of its 1981-88 front wheel drive cars. Toyota covered pulsating brakes on its 1983-86 Camry in a $100 million secret warranty. Ford never told owners of its 1985-92 F-series pickups that America's most popular truck had peeling paint because Ford skipped the primer layer. According to Nissan documents provided to CAS by a whistleblower in 1990, Nissan had at one time up to 48 secret warranties covering various cars and trucks.
There is no doubt that auto manufactur
#400 of 519 Re: Leaky Sunroof - 07 Saturn Outlook [thegumbogirl]
Jun 14, 2012 (5:56 pm)
If you live in California you can contact a lawyer that deals with Product liability. I think it's against the rules on this site to mention the law firm however it is on the Saturn-Gm Outlook and Arcadia lemons page on Facebook. The law firm gave me permission to mention this firm that is located in San Francisco. I recently contacted them and gave them a wealth of information but unfortunately I don't live in California and the laws don't apply to me. However, they said by all the information on our car I provided them we definitively had a case if we lived in CA. I hope those in California can receive some justice and help with GM. The law in CA is not only Lemon Law but breach of warranty of mercantability. This only applies to certain States. It allows a vehicle owner a repurchase if the vehicle has so many problems that it does not meet the legal standard for ordinary goods of this type.If you go to the Facebook page and scroll down there is a story of a man that lives in California that through the Better Business Bureau and due to the laws that apply GM bought his 2007 Saturn Outlook back, no money out of pocket as he was represented by the BBB. Good luck to those that this law applies to, I hope it's helpful information in this unfortunate, injustice problem we are all facing.
#402 of 519 A Successful Fight with GM
Jun 20, 2012 (3:46 am)
I received an email with the following post in it for the message board but now the post is removed or gone. Not sure why. It was post #401. The person mentioned a 20/20 investigation and frankly I am shocked it has not been proposed sooner. I had bought a 2007 new Saturn Outlook. A few months after owning it when it was raining it poured water onto my feet. The dealer kept trying to fix the "leaky" sunroof, said there was a repair for the sunroof, but it never stopped. Then one day my power steering started to fail in the rain. It was dangerous. To make a long story short I filed for lemon law, was fought by GM, they gave me alot of BS for a few months of trying to fix or working with me etc. In the end we went to mediation and I fought them, yes, their big scary corporate lawyer who does this every day all over the country (you know fights the small guy). He was polished and quick witted but in the end the mediator saw through it and awarded me. They had to take the car back and give me back every penny. Which is all I was asking for. Take back your lemon. I still get updates on this forum and it makes me sad to see that all of you are still going through the same problems car after car. If you can get rid of it and play hardball right back with GM. Stay in there it can be done.
#401 Re: Leaky Sunroof - 07 Saturn Outlook [thegumbogirl] by nancy1960 Jun 16, 2012 (11:32 am)
I think this is such an injustice to what is happening to so many owners of Saturn Outlook, Buick Enclave and GMC Arcadia. With the help of all those affected by these water leaks with no fix in sight regardless of repairs we need to have a large voice against GM. We can only exchange certain info on this site (?) and I don't want to violate the rules. I would would like to contact 20/20 Investig...
View/reply at: Re: Leaky Sunroof - 07 Saturn Outlook [thegumbogirl]