Article Comments - 2009 Porsche 911 Carrera/Carrera S First Look and Drive

21 messages, Last post on Aug 22, 2008 at 5:24 AM

You are in the Porsche 911 Forum. Your Host is claires

What is this discussion about? Porsche 911, Coupe, Convertible

First Look: 2009 Porsche 911 Carrera and Carrera S - The 2009 Porsche 911 Carrera and Carrera S bring critical midcycle updates in what will be the fifth year of the 997-generation car. (more)

First Drive: 2009 Porsche 911 Carrera S Cabriolet - First Impressions:The new engine is a treat, but while the PDK dual-clutch transmission is technically impressive, it's not perfect.(more)

Outline

Messages Page 2 of 3: 1; 2; 3; Prev; Next; Last

#8 of 21 'Value' mathmatics 101 [jfjr] by huntzinger Jun 17, 2008 (8:46 am)
Replying to: jfjr (Jun 15, 2008 7:48 am) For what they cost and how they perform, a Porsche is not good value. I've driven many and am not impressed Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, just as are those qualitative factors that individual consumers choose as their priorities (or not!). By the way I drive a CTS-V and will be getting a 2009 one in the fall. How ironic is it that you mention that you're buying a new car immediately after complaining about "value"? The CTS-V has only been sold since 2004, so at best, you're selling a 5 year old car, but as per Edmunds, it has already lost $25K (roughly 50%) of its original $50K MSRP. In contrast, a 2004 911 lost only $16.8K (roughly 25%) of its original $69K MSRP. "Value" advantage? Obviously, not the 2004 CTS-V. Alternatively, if your CTS-V is the 2007, then again as per Edmund's (TCO tables), the CTS-V has depreciated by $8K, which is 15.5% of its $51.4K base MSRP. In contrast, the 2007 911 depreciated by $11K, which while it is more than $8K, because of the 911's higher MSRP of $79.4K, is a smaller percentage: 13.9%. "Value" advantage? Its IMO close enough to be a wash, but the 2007 CTS-V is clearly not winning. FWIW on a personal note, one of my vehicles still retains 60% of its original MSRP after 15+ years of my ownership. Unfortunately, it wasn't made by GM. Thus, we see that this "not a good value" claim is proven bogus when we look at actual values and we come back to qualitative factors, which for many are semi-intangible elements of "feel" and "character" and highly influenced by personal preference. As such, there is no clear 'right' or 'wrong' answer, just as no one can claim that fucia is the best car color, because its a matter of preference and taste. Perhaps you Porsche owners will need to watch your mirrors and stick to the slow lane. Perhaps you'll someday have the opportunity to drive on the Autobahn in Germany, or the Autostrada in Italy and experience the environment that these cars were designed for, because that driving environment simply doesn't exist in the USA. Personally, I've found that there's a huge experiencial difference between doing a quick sprint up to 130mph on a USA highway when there's no police around and having the opportunity to go out and cruise at a sustained 130mph for a full hour. -hh
#9 of 21 Re: Porsche Value [jfjr] by habitat1 Jun 18, 2008 (3:55 am)
Replying to: jfjr (Jun 15, 2008 7:48 am) Save your "value" judgements for the GM boards. You can all pat each other on the back that you've bought great cars from a company on the brink of bankruptcy because for decades they have been more concerned about protecting union jobs than being passionate about delivering a quality product. And, has been pointed out, their piss poor resale values tend to reflect that, after you've mashed your foot to the floor a few times, you have enjoyed everything that they have to offer and it's all downhill from there. I am happy to debate - and even take the Honda side - of the S2000 being a better value than the base Boxster. But a Caddy vs. a 911? Please. I'd take a $20k Honda Accord, give you stop light bragging rights, and have a far, far superior car in terms of construction quality and long term value. Enjoy your new Caddy for the next 4-5 years but don't do the math - you might find out that you paid more in depreciation than a 911 would have cost you and then be embarassed by the lack of value - to go along with the inevitable rattles and other insults that GM throws at you.
#10 of 21 I'm wondering by dhamilton Jun 18, 2008 (5:29 am)
if passing a test should be required to post? Replies to this message: huntzinger (Jun 18, 2008 6:30 am)
#11 of 21 Re: I'm wondering [dhamilton] by huntzinger Jun 18, 2008 (6:30 am)
Replying to: dhamilton (Jun 18, 2008 5:29 am) What makes dialog interesting stems from differences of opinions. However, of the things that I've learned to do when I see something particularly outrageous is to check out the Poster's history to see if it was their "first Post", as this generally correlates to it being a malicious troll instead of a regular participant. In the specific case of [jfjr]: Member Since: June 12, 2008 Last Login: June 16, 2008 No Name, no Bio, no Location. Thus, no credibility to speak of. FYI, he's also popped up this week on motortrend's blog: JFJr (Yesterday 01:20 PM) "I believe that a "greenie weenie" stumbled on to this blog by mistake. Wouldn't a "performance" version of a plug-in hybrid Prius be a hoot? Could you image the size of the owner's electricity bill charging it every month and the cost of imminent battery replacement after a few runs down Al Gore's driveway? Ha Haa!" JFjr wasn't quite so childish in his posts here, but give him the rope to hang himself and he invariably will. -hh
#12 of 21 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Porsche 911 Carrera and Carrera S First Look [KarenS] by heckmotor Jun 22, 2008 (4:34 pm)
Replying to: KarenS (Jun 11, 2008 8:46 am) I assume the details about the 2009 Carreras in the articel are based on the Porsche "Press Information". However, the information given about the brake upgrade of the base 2009 Carrera Coupe may not be correct for US models. The article states: "Up front, the Carrera wears 13.0-by-1.3-inch discs, an upgrade over last year's 12.5-by-1.1-inch set. The rear discs are the same diameter as the fronts, though they're only 1.1 inches thick." In the US Order Guide, dated 6/12/2008, the following is indicated for the base 3.6l Carrera: "12.5” vented and perforated rotors w/ 4 piston monobloc enclosed calipers – front; 11.8” vented and perforated rotors w/ 4 piston monobloc black calipers - rear.” 911's for European Union countries still get the 13" disks. Is the US getting the "old" 2008 model brake systems? Replies to this message: madmanmoo (Jun 23, 2008 5:07 am) heckmotor (Jun 23, 2008 7:30 pm) madmanmoo (Jun 24, 2008 5:18 am) and 2 more...
#13 of 21 Porsche Value? by jfjr Jun 22, 2008 (4:45 pm)
Wow, there's nothing like jumping to conclusions and getting emotional. Why would anyone seriously compare a 4200#, manual transmission, 4-door sedan to a 2-door sports car? My thought was to compare the various iterations of the current C6 Corvette (base, Z51, Z06 and ZR1) to the Porsche counterparts and see how the value comparisons work. And by the way, how about the "value" of that $440,00+ v10 Porsche "supercar" a few years back? What do you think would happen if any other major American car manufacturer had been given that high a budget for a sports car? Replies to this message: fedlawman (Jun 23, 2008 10:10 am)
#14 of 21 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Porsche 911 Carrera and Carrera S First Look [heckmotor] by madmanmoo Jun 23, 2008 (5:07 am)
Replying to: heckmotor (Jun 22, 2008 4:34 pm) For U.S. models, the front brakes are being enlarged while the rear remain the same. That's the information that I've received. Replies to this message: heckmotor (Jun 23, 2008 7:30 pm) madmanmoo (Jun 24, 2008 5:18 am) heckmotor (Jun 24, 2008 4:09 pm) and 1 more...
#15 of 21 Re: Porsche Value? [jfjr] by fedlawman Jun 23, 2008 (10:10 am)
Replying to: jfjr (Jun 22, 2008 4:45 pm) "Why would anyone seriously compare a 4200#, manual transmission, 4-door sedan to a 2-door sports car?" They wouldn't. "My thought was to compare the various iterations of the current C6 Corvette (base, Z51, Z06 and ZR1) to the Porsche counterparts and see how the value comparisons work." So naturally you brought up the Cadillac CTS. "how about the "value" of that $440,00+ v10 Porsche "supercar" a few years back?" Where's the value in a $55,000 Cadillac CTS-V when another well built, comfortable 4-door sedan costs only $15,000? I'm guessing you won't be in the market for these any time soon either... $2,000,000 helicopter: $6,000,000 yacht: $125,000,000 estate on 40 acres:
#16 of 21 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Porsche 911 Carrera and Carrera S First Look [madmanmoo] by heckmotor Jun 23, 2008 (7:30 pm)
Replying to: madmanmoo (Jun 23, 2008 5:07 am) That would be the third version... What is your source? Anyway, I contacted Porsche Cars of North America today about this issue and requested clarification. Should get the answer in 2 to 3 days by email. Replies to this message: madmanmoo (Jun 24, 2008 5:18 am) heckmotor (Jun 24, 2008 4:09 pm) madmanmoo (Jun 25, 2008 7:18 am)
#17 of 21 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Porsche 911 Carrera and Carrera S First Look [heckmotor] by madmanmoo Jun 24, 2008 (5:18 am)
Replying to: heckmotor (Jun 23, 2008 7:30 pm) Heck, I messed it up a bit. All models are receiving upgraded calipers. The entry level model is receiving upgraded front rotors. Rotors remain the same on S models. Below I lifted the information directly from the order guide. Carrera Coupe Braking System 12.5” vented and perforated rotors w/ 4 piston monobloc enclosed calipers – front, 11.8” vented and perforated rotors w/ 4 piston monobloc black calipers – rear. ABS 8.0 – Anti Lock Braking System, brake pad wear indicators, hand operated parking brake. Carrera S Coupe Braking System 13” vented and perforated rotors w/ 4 piston monobloc enclosed calipers – front & rear. ABS 8.0 – Anti Lock Braking System, brake pad wear indicators, hand operated parking brake. I hope that helps! Replies to this message: heckmotor (Jun 24, 2008 4:09 pm) madmanmoo (Jun 25, 2008 7:18 am)