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Article Comments - 2009 Lincoln MKS First Drive / Full Test

154 messages,  Last post on Nov 17, 2008 at 2:21 PM

You are in the Lincoln MKS Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Lincoln MKS, Sedan

First Drive: 2009 Lincoln MKS - First Impressions: The world's most completely equipped Taurus/Taurus X/Sable/Volvo/Flex, which turns out to be not such a bad thing. (more)
 
Full Test: 2009 Lincoln MKS AWD - Bottom Line: A luxury sedan for the Ford faithful, but all others would be advised to look elsewhere as there are far better luxury sedans for the price. (more)


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#36 of 154
Re: Only a fool would buy this! [johnzocco] by bfarrell
Jun 11, 2008 (6:32 am)
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Replying to: johnzocco (Jun 10, 2008 9:07 pm)

johnzocco ... Tell that to the over 8500 consumers who have pre-ordered the MKS. Must be lots of fools who can part with $45k.
#37 of 154
Re: Only a fool would buy this! [bfarrell] by speculator
Jun 11, 2008 (7:23 am)
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Replying to: bfarrell (Jun 11, 2008 6:32 am)

I know that percentage wise,the MKS is being discounted more than a CTS. Most of them 8500 orders are from those that drive Towncars. Lincoln needs younger clientele . The car isn't drawing that much in trade ins from upscale imports. The imports and domestics, other than Towncars that it does attract, are the lower to mid priced Toyotas ,Nissans, Pontiacs, Fords and Chevys. The younger crowd that rides along with their parents and grandparents in Towncars to trade it in often inquire about the MKR show car. Even some Towncar drivers inquire about the car.
#38 of 154
Re: Only a fool would buy this! [speculator] by bfarrell
Jun 11, 2008 (8:29 am)
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Replying to: speculator (Jun 11, 2008 7:23 am)

Take a look at the on line Detroit Free Press review of the MKS in today's paper for a much more balanced review. This vehicle is positioned well for the market (except for $4.00 gas) and It would be interesting to see the demographic of those 8500 orders. I have no doubt that those who feel it necessary to spend $70k on a vehicle in order to feel good about themselves may not look at Lincoln period. They are the same individuals who would spend $3000 for an Armani suit. Not now nor have thy ever been Lincoln's audience.
#39 of 154
Re: Only a fool would buy this! [speculator] by cowbell
Jun 11, 2008 (8:56 am)
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Replying to: speculator (Jun 11, 2008 7:23 am)

To to sound aged biased, but I think most of those pre-orders started with the MKS website. I'm not sure how many 70+ people are configuring cars on the internet.
 
I could also be wrong about the source of most of those pre-orders, but it seems the most logical source. Even the 70+ crowd isn't swinging down to the dealership "to see what's new for sale."
#40 of 154
Re: Only a fool would buy this! [cowbell] by speculator
Jun 11, 2008 (2:09 pm)
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Replying to: cowbell (Jun 11, 2008 8:56 am)

I am just stating fact .Most of those who inquire about the car at my dealership are Towncar owners Most of their kids or grandkids are driving foreign premium vehicles. I see this when a Towncar owner drops off his car for service and His kid picks him up in an expensive import. Believe it or not, once in awhile these foreign owners do inquire about the MKR . None of them are that impressed with the MKS. From my experience their aren't many Towncar owners below 55. I believe that the median average Lincoln owner is 58 years old. This means that a good portion of Lincoln owners are above 65 years old. How many people above 75 years of age will still be driving especially with the restrictions that most states are enacting to make it more difficult for seniors to renew their licenses? Lincoln can't base its product line on those above 50 and still be profitable. It needs products that would appeal to those below fifty who have a yearly income above 125,000 .
#41 of 154
Re: Only a fool would buy this! [bfarrell] by speculator
Jun 11, 2008 (2:41 pm)
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Replying to: bfarrell (Jun 11, 2008 8:29 am)

Since when is mediocrity acceptable? The car depends on its electronic accessories to sell it. Its performance is not even on par with foreign vehicles that have similar price tags. It still suffers from many of the short comings of its Ford cousin.There are some things that can't be engineered out of an old platform.For instance the weight distribution is the same as the Taurus.The car is front heavy. For optimal handling the car should come close to a 50/50 weight distribution. Audi has come closer to the 50/50 standard with its fwd platform but it still falls short. The imbalance in weight distribution is inherit in a fwd car. The new Volvo is better and that vehicle is not on par with its European and Japanese competition.
#42 of 154
Re: Only a fool would buy this! [speculator] by jeyhoe
Jun 11, 2008 (3:57 pm)
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Replying to: speculator (Jun 11, 2008 2:41 pm)

Truer words rarely spoken - especially by someone who has an interest in selling the car.
Ave age for Lincoln = 58? U might be right, I actually think it's higher than that. The drivers I see in Lincolns, even the few Lincolns that ARE driver's cars (LS anyone?) are old enough to remember the great depression.
Lincoln has been talking about lowering the ave age of their buyers, but their actions do nothing to support that. An updated LS might have gone a ways, I dunno. Has the CTS lowered Caddy's ave age? BTW, the CTS-V is apparently going to best the best of Europe, leaving AMG and M's in the dust according to nurbergring (sp?) track times. But I digress.
I think the answer to your question is that mediocrity is not only accepted now, especially at Ford, but it is to be EXPECTED. Even the platform that this Lincoln "flagship" is built on is not good enough for it's designer, Volvo, anymore. They updated it and tossed it in the garbage in 2005 which is where Ford found it and designed thier front-heavy sofa-on-wheels around it. It's back to SOS-different day at Ford. ANd to think some people think Ford is the best of the Big 3 now and is given the best chance to survive. Personally, on my darker days, I've come to the conclusion that American cars are soon to be relics. THey cant survive the CAFE standards coming into vogue soon. They cant build the cars cheap enough to compete, what with the imbeciles at the UAW thinking the world owes them a living. And to prove they think that way, they just came out to support BH Obama for president. Talk about the chickens voting for Colonel Sanders.
#43 of 154
Re: Only a fool would buy this! [jeyhoe] by speculator
Jun 12, 2008 (10:34 am)
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Replying to: jeyhoe (Jun 11, 2008 3:57 pm)

The MKS does have its benefits. The benefits of this vehicle would be more suited to a Mercury Flagship. Lincoln needs vehicles that are more comparable to other premium vehicles. If it would manufacture a world class auto, it would have an oppurtunity to export it. I was in Great Britain and was surprised at the number of Lincoln Towncars being used as livery vehicles. A Mark VIII and the LS series are considered prized possessions in that country and none of these vehicles have RHD. Lincolns are known in Europe.With the proper vehicles and marketing it could become a player in the European market. Cadillac has finally realized that it needs to go global, thus it is going rwd. Those Cadillacs that are slated for export will be available with RHD. Sell Volvo an invest half of the proceeds to producing a genuine Lincoln division
#44 of 154
Mindless drivel by med5
Jun 12, 2008 (11:45 pm)
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It's just amazing to read how opinionated people are about a car not a single person has driven. Edmunds itself starts the kicking. It's First Drive review struggles to find something bad to say about it, but the main thing they can come up with is that it's platform is related to that of the Ford Taurus. Really? I thought both came from the Volvo S80, a more expensive European luxury car. Name a luxury brand that doesn't used shared platforms. Is the Rolls Phantom just a fancied up, $400,000 BMW 7 series? The Acura RL just an Accord? All Infinities just Nissan Zs? Every other review, as well as the substance of the Edmunds review, is quite positive. MKS doesn't share a single body panel or interior piece with the Taurus and it doesn't look quite like any other car. Since a highly revised suspension was created, front and rear, for the car, Edmunds insists on claiming it was lifted from the Flex. It is equally accurate to say the Flex borrowed it from the MKS. The fact is, as stated by Lincoln engineers on another website, that the suspension change was required when problems were found in the MKS's development due to the higher torque engine, which doesn't come on the Flex. This car appears to be as good as it gets for the price. If some luxury cars that cost $20k to $40k more offer any practical benefits or functional improvements over the MKS, please tell me what they are. I can see the benefit of the MKS's larger, quieter interior, superior navigation system, voice control, front/rear sunroof and better fuel mileage, but I can't quite see what advantage the more expensive luxo cars have over it. Only the hard-riding hot rod versions of other brands spent time on the Nurburgring, which is irrelevant in any case. People don't race luxury cars. Please don't make me laugh by suggesting the competition is more trouble free, with the possible exception of the Lexus models. And don't complain about lack of power. The base engines in the BMW 5 series and Cadillac CTS, for example, are less powerful than the MKS, yet nobody whines about them. At least give this car a fair hearing and leave your anti-Ford biases behind. I have owned every one of the most popular luxury cars and find this one at least as interesting as the competition. I have never owned or considered a Town Car.
#45 of 154
Re: Mindless drivel [med5] by speculator
Jun 13, 2008 (5:23 am)
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Replying to: med5 (Jun 12, 2008 11:45 pm)

The Rolls Phantom is 230" inches long. It doesn't share platforms with the Bimmer 750. The 750 doesn't even come close to 230". Also the Rolls engine develops 600 Hp BMW derivative. As for the MKS, why not make the same modifications to the suspension and brakes that was done to the MKS optional on the Taurus.It could be a two or three thousand dollar option marketed as a sport package. The fact is that everything that is suppose to be exclusive to the MKS can be added as an option on the present Taurus if Ford wished to do that. It doesn't matter if the MKS has a more powerfull engine that the CTS or Bimmer what counts is the time that it takes for the vehicle to accelerate to the quarter mile. In that respect the MKS is slower.
If this vehicle were a flag ship none of the mechanicle modification would be possible on its lower price cousin.
In Europe, Volvo is not considered to be a premium mark. Volvo was never considered to be a premium vehicle in the USA until Ford marketeers said it is. In the 70's and 80's the price of the car was on par with that of Buick. On the Infiniti fwd vehicles, the tendency for torque steer was dealt with.If these Infinities are on par with the lower price Nissan offerings ,give me the Nissan anytime over the MKS. I have driven the MKS. If driven hard and making abrupt Lane changes as if trying to steer out o f an accident the tendency for torque steer is evident when having to steer back into the lane to avoid oncoming traffic. The steering of the. vehicle won't center itself under acelleration while at the same time using the handling property of the vehicle .The driver has to really assist the steering for the vehicle to center tself. Normally, if one makes a sudden manuvere with a car the steering should return to center when the driver takes his hands of the wheel.The vehicle shouldn't keep turning. But that is a problem of most fwd vehicles.

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