- #34 of 154
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Damn the torpedoes
by speculator
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Jun 10, 2008 (9:42 pm)
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The MKS is a decent car and it will be suitable for those who drive Towncars. The problem is that the average Towncar driver is about 58 years old. If the MKS was built as originally planed as a rwd sport sedan,the average of the Lincoln buyers age would probably have decreased to the early to Mid 50's. But Lincoln still has a chance to gain glory. Build a street version of the MKR with a world class sport rwd suspension and powertrain. If Lincoln is to survive,it has to have a vehicle that will draw the more affluent young people to consider it who otherwise would only consider a BMW or Mercedes sport sedan. Otherwise, how many 70 year olds can Lincoln depend on to keep it in business.
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- #35 of 154
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Re: It's one thing [speculator]
by bfarrell
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Jun 11, 2008 (6:20 am)
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Replying to: speculator (Jun 10, 2008 8:41 pm)
speculator... I guess we should just agree to disagree. I would make one final point. Compare apples to apples!!!! The comparable sized AUDI stickers at over $70k ... for $25k more than a nicely equipped MKS one would assume it should be more vehicle even though it is a V.W. knock off. What can one possibly get for $25k more other than an ego boost? In fact most of the comparable sized 'luxury" offerings everyone is using to compare sticker for tens of thousands more dollars. Lincoln will do just fine with this vehicle and it is not just a Taurus knock off as you should know.
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- #36 of 154
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Re: Only a fool would buy this! [johnzocco]
by bfarrell
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Jun 11, 2008 (6:32 am)
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Replying to: johnzocco (Jun 10, 2008 9:07 pm)
johnzocco ... Tell that to the over 8500 consumers who have pre-ordered the MKS. Must be lots of fools who can part with $45k.
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- #37 of 154
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Re: Only a fool would buy this! [bfarrell]
by speculator
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Jun 11, 2008 (7:23 am)
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Replying to: bfarrell (Jun 11, 2008 6:32 am)
I know that percentage wise,the MKS is being discounted more than a CTS. Most of them 8500 orders are from those that drive Towncars. Lincoln needs younger clientele . The car isn't drawing that much in trade ins from upscale imports. The imports and domestics, other than Towncars that it does attract, are the lower to mid priced Toyotas ,Nissans, Pontiacs, Fords and Chevys. The younger crowd that rides along with their parents and grandparents in Towncars to trade it in often inquire about the MKR show car. Even some Towncar drivers inquire about the car.
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- #38 of 154
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Re: Only a fool would buy this! [speculator]
by bfarrell
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Jun 11, 2008 (8:29 am)
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Replying to: speculator (Jun 11, 2008 7:23 am)
Take a look at the on line Detroit Free Press review of the MKS in today's paper for a much more balanced review. This vehicle is positioned well for the market (except for $4.00 gas) and It would be interesting to see the demographic of those 8500 orders. I have no doubt that those who feel it necessary to spend $70k on a vehicle in order to feel good about themselves may not look at Lincoln period. They are the same individuals who would spend $3000 for an Armani suit. Not now nor have thy ever been Lincoln's audience.
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- #39 of 154
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Re: Only a fool would buy this! [speculator]
by cowbell
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Jun 11, 2008 (8:56 am)
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Replying to: speculator (Jun 11, 2008 7:23 am)
To to sound aged biased, but I think most of those pre-orders started with the MKS website. I'm not sure how many 70+ people are configuring cars on the internet.
I could also be wrong about the source of most of those pre-orders, but it seems the most logical source. Even the 70+ crowd isn't swinging down to the dealership "to see what's new for sale."
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- #40 of 154
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Re: Only a fool would buy this! [cowbell]
by speculator
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Jun 11, 2008 (2:09 pm)
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Replying to: cowbell (Jun 11, 2008 8:56 am)
I am just stating fact .Most of those who inquire about the car at my dealership are Towncar owners Most of their kids or grandkids are driving foreign premium vehicles. I see this when a Towncar owner drops off his car for service and His kid picks him up in an expensive import. Believe it or not, once in awhile these foreign owners do inquire about the MKR . None of them are that impressed with the MKS. From my experience their aren't many Towncar owners below 55. I believe that the median average Lincoln owner is 58 years old. This means that a good portion of Lincoln owners are above 65 years old. How many people above 75 years of age will still be driving especially with the restrictions that most states are enacting to make it more difficult for seniors to renew their licenses? Lincoln can't base its product line on those above 50 and still be profitable. It needs products that would appeal to those below fifty who have a yearly income above 125,000 .
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- #41 of 154
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Re: Only a fool would buy this! [bfarrell]
by speculator
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Jun 11, 2008 (2:41 pm)
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Replying to: bfarrell (Jun 11, 2008 8:29 am)
Since when is mediocrity acceptable? The car depends on its electronic accessories to sell it. Its performance is not even on par with foreign vehicles that have similar price tags. It still suffers from many of the short comings of its Ford cousin.There are some things that can't be engineered out of an old platform.For instance the weight distribution is the same as the Taurus.The car is front heavy. For optimal handling the car should come close to a 50/50 weight distribution. Audi has come closer to the 50/50 standard with its fwd platform but it still falls short. The imbalance in weight distribution is inherit in a fwd car. The new Volvo is better and that vehicle is not on par with its European and Japanese competition.
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- #42 of 154
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Re: Only a fool would buy this! [speculator]
by jeyhoe
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Jun 11, 2008 (3:57 pm)
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Replying to: speculator (Jun 11, 2008 2:41 pm)
Truer words rarely spoken - especially by someone who has an interest in selling the car.
Ave age for Lincoln = 58? U might be right, I actually think it's higher than that. The drivers I see in Lincolns, even the few Lincolns that ARE driver's cars (LS anyone?) are old enough to remember the great depression.
Lincoln has been talking about lowering the ave age of their buyers, but their actions do nothing to support that. An updated LS might have gone a ways, I dunno. Has the CTS lowered Caddy's ave age? BTW, the CTS-V is apparently going to best the best of Europe, leaving AMG and M's in the dust according to nurbergring (sp?) track times. But I digress.
I think the answer to your question is that mediocrity is not only accepted now, especially at Ford, but it is to be EXPECTED. Even the platform that this Lincoln "flagship" is built on is not good enough for it's designer, Volvo, anymore. They updated it and tossed it in the garbage in 2005 which is where Ford found it and designed thier front-heavy sofa-on-wheels around it. It's back to SOS-different day at Ford. ANd to think some people think Ford is the best of the Big 3 now and is given the best chance to survive. Personally, on my darker days, I've come to the conclusion that American cars are soon to be relics. THey cant survive the CAFE standards coming into vogue soon. They cant build the cars cheap enough to compete, what with the imbeciles at the UAW thinking the world owes them a living. And to prove they think that way, they just came out to support BH Obama for president. Talk about the chickens voting for Colonel Sanders.
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- #43 of 154
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Re: Only a fool would buy this! [jeyhoe]
by speculator
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Jun 12, 2008 (10:34 am)
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Replying to: jeyhoe (Jun 11, 2008 3:57 pm)
The MKS does have its benefits. The benefits of this vehicle would be more suited to a Mercury Flagship. Lincoln needs vehicles that are more comparable to other premium vehicles. If it would manufacture a world class auto, it would have an oppurtunity to export it. I was in Great Britain and was surprised at the number of Lincoln Towncars being used as livery vehicles. A Mark VIII and the LS series are considered prized possessions in that country and none of these vehicles have RHD. Lincolns are known in Europe.With the proper vehicles and marketing it could become a player in the European market. Cadillac has finally realized that it needs to go global, thus it is going rwd. Those Cadillacs that are slated for export will be available with RHD. Sell Volvo an invest half of the proceeds to producing a genuine Lincoln division
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