- #144 of 154
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Re: I Don't Get It..... [pmerk28]
by tib2006
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Nov 10, 2008 (7:03 pm)
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Replying to: pmerk28 (Sep 06, 2008 6:01 pm)
OK...lets get one thing straight. Lincoln could hardly be called a "luxury brand" anymore. All of the vehicles it sells are basically higher-end versions of other Ford vehicles on the market. The popularity of the Navigator is obvious yes, but how much sense does it really make? The same goes for the MKS. Think about it, its little more than an upscale Taurus. The MKS might fare better if it were not being marketed as a luxury sedan. Furthermore, Lincoln needs to nail down the ride and handling balance that so many other luxury automakers seem to do so well at (Acura, Audi, BMW, MB, and yes Cadillac too!). I do recognize that a front drive platform has limitations(but Honda does wonders with front drive platforms!), but I feel that Lincoln really did a piss poor job at tuning this chassis.
From a distance the interior looks upscale and nice leather covers the seats. But closer inspection reveals that this car is not up to luxury car standards. Marketed next to an Avalon, it wouldnt be so bad. But when put up against luxury stalwarts that dominate the market, it fails to impress in any way. For $46K, there are just better choices out there. A fully loaded Hyundai Genesis 3.8 (with rear drive!) can be had for 36K (thats 10K less!) and offers equipment levels that are just as impressive, and a much better finished interior. Also, for about the same money as the Lincoln, a Lexus GS350 can be had. Both of these cars have much more refined engines as well. Don't call the MKS a bad car, just don't call it a luxury sedan either. I rest my case.
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- #145 of 154
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Re: I Don't Get It..... [tib2006]
by carolinabob
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Nov 12, 2008 (8:45 am)
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Replying to: tib2006 (Nov 10, 2008 7:03 pm)
The Genesis is a nice looking car, but it has serious suspension issues and does not ride as well as the MKS. Both Car and Driver and Automobile magazines have noted serious concerns with the Genesis suspension, just as many eventually noted problems in the Azera suspension.
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- #146 of 154
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Re: I Don't Get It..... [carolinabob]
by nvbanker
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Nov 13, 2008 (3:00 pm)
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Replying to: carolinabob (Nov 12, 2008 8:45 am)
And by the way, the only Hyundai Genesis to come through the Mainheim Nevada auction thus far - was a Lemon Buy-Back. Not too impressive, IYAM.
I disagree about the fit, finish, sound system and overall quality of the MKS. The only "near luxury" feature on the car to me, is the engine, which is not as refined, nor as powerful as it should be for that car. The Ecoboost may fix that, don't know, but otherwise, I think it's every bit as good as the Acura just as it is.....
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- #147 of 154
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Re: I Don't Get It..... [nvbanker]
by carolinabob
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Nov 14, 2008 (10:24 am)
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Replying to: nvbanker (Nov 13, 2008 3:00 pm)
I did not see a tremendous difference in fit and finish, sound, interior or styling when driving a Genesis and MKS back to back. The MKS is a little plainer inside, but the leather on the dash of the Genesis is unattractive depending on the color. Personal choices I guess.
If Lincoln listens to the professional critics, goes backs and improves the car as they suggest and increases the power slightly, it may have a winner. Also, need to do something to substantially separate it from Taurus. Of course, the Lexus ES 350 is a Camry and sells quite well, so who knows.
This assumes that FoMoCo will be around much longer.
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- #148 of 154
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Re: I Don't Get It..... [carolinabob]
by akirby
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Nov 14, 2008 (11:08 am)
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Replying to: carolinabob (Nov 14, 2008 10:24 am)
Ok, I don't understand the comments about separating this car from a Taurus. The MKS has totally (100%) unique sheetmetal, a totally unique and much more upscale interior except maybe the gauge cluster. Selectshift, adaptive HIDs, adaptive cruise, keyless start, hidden keyless entry, larger/more powerful engine (slightly), cooled seats, rear sun shade, dual moonroofs, larger wheels/tires, THX audio. Even the chassis was upgraded using the Flex suspension.
Yeah, it's just like a Taurus. Geez.
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- #149 of 154
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Re: I Don't Get It..... [nvbanker]
by gregg_vw
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Nov 14, 2008 (11:51 am)
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Replying to: nvbanker (Nov 13, 2008 3:00 pm)
see autoblog's take on it...apparently the complaints about the Genesis suspension is that it is too soft. The car is a definite bargain compared to the MKS...
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/13/in-the-autoblog-garage-2009-hyundai-genesis-s- edan/
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- #150 of 154
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Re: I Don't Get It..... [akirby]
by nvbanker
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Nov 17, 2008 (10:25 am)
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Replying to: akirby (Nov 14, 2008 11:08 am)
I agree - if you aren't a "car guy", you would never make the assumption that the MKS is even a distant cousin to the Taurus, because the differences are profound, and similarities few. Making that reach is part of Ford's clones of the past coming back to haunt them, because this car doesn't resemble other Fords as some have done in the past. I thought the car is every bit as good as the Lexus ES350, and is much larger. Between the two, I'd buy the MKS hands down, but that's the market it is competitive with, not with bigger Lexuses or BMW/Mercedes cars. It's in the range of the ES or Acura RL...and nothing larger or better. The car has no faults for the money, but still fails to get a following or a decent ride in the press for some reason. I fear the car is doomed, based on the number of them piling up at the dealerships around here.
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- #151 of 154
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Re: I Don't Get It..... [nvbanker]
by gregg_vw
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Nov 17, 2008 (1:15 pm)
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Replying to: nvbanker (Nov 17, 2008 10:25 am)
It is simply the wrong car at the wrong time. Had Lincoln been able to put as much effort into the MKZ (and into a people mover CUV smaller than the MKT), they would have something to sell now. Not that Lincoln could have foreseen what was coming. It just underscores how much damage Bill Ford did during his tenure by taking a marque that had finally outsold Cadillac, and starving it of new product as well as denying it a place in the now defunct Premier Auto Group--back when the company actually had the money to bring new product to market.
The MKS is better than the 2002 Continental and it is better than the decrepit Town Car. It is a much better Cadillac DTS. Now if Lincoln had additionally gone ahead and designed a small car and something to replace the LS (a la CTS), they would be holding on a bit better. But everyone save Mini (and inexplicably Audi) is hurting right now.
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- #152 of 154
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Re: I Don't Get It..... [gregg_vw]
by akirby
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Nov 17, 2008 (1:44 pm)
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Replying to: gregg_vw (Nov 17, 2008 1:15 pm)
A reporter who saw and drove the 2010 MKZ (details are embargoed) recently said that it "blew away" the ES350 and other similar competition - or something to that effect. Apparently it's 0.5 seconds quicker 0-60 although the order guide indicates it retains the 3.5L engine. Sounds like good progress, though and with the Ecoboost engines coming next year I think they'll be ok. Not great but ok.
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- #153 of 154
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Re: I Don't Get It..... [akirby]
by carolinabob
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Nov 17, 2008 (1:51 pm)
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Replying to: akirby (Nov 14, 2008 11:08 am)
Every professional review starts off saying it is based on the Taurus which is based on the "old" Volvo S80. Yes, new sheet metal, new interior, but also a lot of Taurus components.
BTW, the ES350 is based on the Camry - same scenario.
I just think that Lincoln needs to really stand out from Taurus. Not a car based on Taurus chasis, engine, drivetrain, etc.
Of course, Ford is going to have to make a choice soon - either Mercury goes or Lincoln goes or FoMoCo goes.
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