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SUVs Hummer What should GM do with Hummer
84 messages, Last post on Oct 25, 2009 at 9:04 AM
You are in the Hummer Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & tidester
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Replying to: madmanmoo (Jun 25, 2008 9:10 am) "My base instinct of hatred for the Hummer kicks in when I see it being used as a daily driver in Atlanta........." and, "It's wasteful and silly when I see people driving to the mall in these things......" and then, "I sell Porsches" Now, I can't argue against the fact that in some ways it's wasteful not to use a vehicle to the limits of its design. Most vehicles fall into this under utilized category though, including both Hummer models currently available (which are very capable off road), and most Porsche models (which are very capable on the track) plus the Cayenne which manages to be good at both. The only vehicles that come close to full utilization are commercial vehicles carrying a full load 24/7, carpooler's vehicles to and from work, and single seat mopeds and scooters when being ridden. To my point though, which is, how can you complain about the majority of Hummers not being used to their full capability, when the same applies to the majority of Porsches that you sell? Many H2s get taken off road at the weekend, just as many Porches get taken to the track, but both are equally wasteful of their potential when being driven to the store. I do believe you hate Hummers (the H2 specifically?), I do believe that the red mist comes down when the soccer mom manages to take up two parking slots at the mall with one; I believe it because I've seen it in others. My problem is that I don't understand it because I don't feel it like you do. Slight annoyance yes, but no more so than at Denalis, Suburbans, Expeditions, etc., etc. Can you explain the hatred for one but not for all? I don't think you can point to one 'wasteful' aspect of the H2 that isn't matched by at least one of its brethren from the big three. I see the emotion that's there, though I don't feel it myself, but I definitely don't see the logic; that's the bit I need you to help me with. 
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Replying to: mac24 (Jun 26, 2008 7:33 am) I think the irritation about the product is just instinctual. I see it as the top of the food chain for complete excess and wastefulness. Therefore, it gets me riled. I think it also has to do with the fact that it was produced for military use and driving the horses around in CO, I don't think you'll come under heavy fire. Nor do I believe you'll get into that kind of situation at the mall (although things are changing).  I would have to take exception to your point about Porsches. These vehicles are the most reliable, economical sports car on the road. You might argue that the price of them is completely unnecessary, but I don't see the connection with a Hummer. These sports cars are made to be enjoyed as daily drivers. Do all of our customers do so? Absolutely not, but many do enjoy them every day. Our Boxster returns 30mpg on the highway. That's pretty awesome. For the new 911, they have reduced emissions by 15% and added direct fuel injection which improves gas mileage and performance. There's a lot to be said for how Porsche takes care of the environment and isn't wasteful. Do you need a Porsche? No, you never will, but I dont think it will ever fall into the same category of Hummer. You asked about Porsches not being used to their full potential on the track. Yes, many of our drivers don't know how to drive worth a lick, but I just don't see the correlation with Hummer. Hummers are cheaply made, poor reliability, poor gas mileage, poor resale, etc. Porsches don't match any of that. I suppose I would feel a little bit better about Hummer not being used for it's original purpose if it did something well. It just falls on it face, in my opinion. Suburbans, Expeditions? I see a lot of people using those for horse trailers and major people haulers. It just doesn't pull out the same hatred.  Does that help? |
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Replying to: madmanmoo (Jun 26, 2008 8:39 am) Nevertheless, Mac does have a valid point. How many of those Porches are actually used to anything near their potential? But then you could say the same for most vehicles. Apparently, you just don't like "BIG." Others just don't like those pesky little sportsters that weave frantically from lane to lane, are hard to see and annoy everyone else.  tidester, host SUVs and Smart Shopper
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Replying to: madmanmoo (Jun 26, 2008 8:39 am) ..............Does that help? Hey Moo, Kind of helps, though I think it's the image you hate rather than the reality I need you to clarify one thing though; is it the H2 you hate, or is it all things Hummer? You see, the Hummer most commonly seen on the roads these days is the H2, with the H3 catching up fast. The H2 was never designed for military use and would be ill suited for such a task. The civilian version of the military Hummer is usually referred to as the H1, and as only 11,000 or so have been produced since 1992, over half of which have been exported and many were strictly commercial versions used for mining and construction, it's not too common to see one on the highway (though LA and Miami seem to have more than their fair share). Those were/are designed and built by American General (AMG), which has nothing to do with GM other than they build the H2 for GM using GM supplied parts. For a more detailed explanation see my earlier post here: AMG/GM. I suppose I would feel a little bit better about Hummer not being used for it's original purpose if it did something well. It just falls on it face, in my opinion. Just as on track performance is something that Porsche does well, offroad capability is something the H2 has in spades, much more so than comparable 4x4s from other manufacturers. Anyhow, back to original point, it's the 'Hummer hate' that intrigues me, not because I drive one (they just don't appeal to me) but because that attitude is occasionally misdirected to me, usually in the form of a raised finger by Prius pilots as we pass. I drive an H1, which when I run on recycled WVO (waste vegetable oil) is consuming 100% less petroleum based fuel than the Prius (which is why the finger always makes me smile ). (Incidentally, if you can accept that the H2 is good offroad you just wouldn't believe what an H1 can do.)
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Replying to: tidester (Jun 26, 2008 10:37 am) Mac said that the H1 and H2 were very capable offroad. That may be one thing that they are good at, but I have to wonder about how capable they truly are with that much weight being hauled around. So after driving and looking over the H2, I saw that it had poor build quality, terrible resale, cheap interior, difficult to manuever and horrible gas mileage. That's when I thought to myself, "This vehicle has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. I hope the brand gets dumped." So, if you're comparing to Porsches, these vehicles do so many things well. Great resale, fit and finish, performance, reliability, emissions and fuel consumption, etc. So, even if someone isn't using it to its full potential, at least other things are done very well. Do you see my distinction?
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Replying to: mac24 (Jun 26, 2008 2:12 pm) That may be true. I've only driven the vehicle for a short time and have not owned one. It is the H2 that my irritation is directed at. -moo
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Replying to: madmanmoo (Jun 27, 2008 4:41 am) No, the issue that fascinates me is the negativity that's directed at Hummers and the H2 specifically, rather than at all large SUVs, and I think that the reason I can't really get my head around it is because it's an emotional reaction rather than a logical one. I think it's a case of either you 'get it' or you don't, and in my case I don't 'get it' but I do think I understand it a little better now.
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Replying to: tidester (Jun 26, 2008 10:37 am) The commercials would romaticise the thought of traveling accross the planet where no man (and no gas station) has gone before. Because GM, not Porsche had alot of say in passing a tax credit for cars such as the Hummer. Because it's footprint is bigger than anything in it's class. It does have ties to the Military and when I see a "Support our troops" sticker on the back of one I can't help but wonder how getting 8 miles to the gallon helps "suport" anyone except Exxon - and probably has alot to do with our dependance on the middle east our foreign policy in the middle east. Because Arnold Schwartzenager, who claims to be an environmentalis, drove one (an H1!) to create an image that is quite a contrast to being eco friendly.
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| Thanks for letting the topic expand on hummer dislike. Very good and enlightening discussion. But if the economy is as bad as has been stated (bank of scotland, rescap, gmac, cerberus, and gm), don't think we will be wasting energy talking about vehicles. Food, shelter, and clothing come to mind, unless the true price per barrel is achieved (and maybe an interest holiday). Talk is everywhere about this motor that motor design, this fuel that fuel, and the like. In spite of all that, it would've been nice (and may be built) to try a three with the improvements (tie rods, lockers, cast iron front differential-if no sfa conversion) and a little supercharger boost for hills and mountains, and different gearing. | |
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Replying to: madmanmoo (Jun 27, 2008 4:39 am) Well, yeah, but those issues pertain to most (all?) vehicles and what distinguishes the Hummer is its size. So, basically you don't like big. tidester, host SUVs and Smart Shopper
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