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Toyota Prius, Volkswagen Golf, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Hatchback, Sedan
#73 of 791 Re: Pricing [backy]
Aug 22, 2009 (4:25 pm)
I will be curious to try the seats they put in the Golf TDI. If they are the same as the 2009 GTI, they are wonderfully comfortable. Something many owners complain about with the Prius. Edmund's shows the Prius IV selling at $26,550. The Prius V with high tech package is going for $33,200. Unless a side by side comparison is made it will be difficult to say which is the most bang for the buck. I don't see an XM or Sirius on the Prius. It is standard on the Golf with 6 months service free. I would NEVER trust Toyota again on that subject as they guaranteed me I could get XM for my Sequoia Limited. After the check was written they found out they were mistaken. So I have a $51,000 car with no XM radio available. Toyota electronics are way behind the industry.
For those that are happy with a mediocre handling, rough riding noisy car. I say go for the Prius. I'm afraid the wait for a Golf TDI will be longer than the Sportwagen TDI. I am banking on the knee jerk US buyer to steer clear of the TDIs this winter when diesel prices are high. It will make it easier dealing on the Golf TDI.
#74 of 791 Re: Pricing [gagrice]
Aug 22, 2009 (4:47 pm)
Prius IV has leather among other things, and the Prius V is fully loaded, with equipment optional or not available on the Golf TDI. Let's compare apples to apples.
According to Toyota.com, the Prius' sound systems are "XM capable". The XM radio feature is an additional $449 plus monthly fee. So I was incorrect on my previous post--you can get XM on the Prius II, but it's optional. Actually I like that XM or Sirius is not standard--I don't really want it, so I'd rather not pay for it.
As for mediocre handling... the Gen 2 handled just fine, I thought, and the Gen 3 is supposed to be improved there but I haven't driven it yet. I haven't driven the new Golf yet either but the Rabbit has a nice blend of ride and handling. As for "noisy", I have to disagree on that one. Unless the TDI is quieter than the 2.5, the Prius is the quieter car except maybe at full throttle. And as for rough riding, again I haven't driven the new Prius or the new Golf, but the old Prius isn't any rougher than my Rabbit. Have you driven the new Prius and the new Golf?
Although I love my Rabbit, what intrigues me most about the Prius is its in-town FE. Most of the miles of the next car I buy will be on short trips in town. The Prius should do very well there; the TDI, not as much. Also I have this fear of the fuel for the TDI gelling up in the winter. Don't laugh. This is a problem in MN where the government, in its Infinite Wisdom, mandated a blend of biodiesel be used. As you probably know, biodiesel and -20F don't mix too well. The state claims they have that problem worked out... we'll see.
P.S. Aftermarket XM is pretty readily available.
#75 of 791 Re: Pricing [backy]
Aug 22, 2009 (7:44 pm)
According to Toyota.com, the Prius' sound systems are "XM capable"
Unless it was installed and included at the time of sale I would not believe them for a minute. That is exactly what the literature says for the 2007 Sequoia Limited. You can install this $600 unit and it will work through the NAV system. However when you have the rear seat DVD player it will not work. Add to that the CD single disk player is not MP3 and refuses to play a lot of the CDs I have that worked fine in my GMC PU with Bose factory system. Toyota electronics suck. There are things I like about the ride and comfort of my Sequoia. The NAV/Radio/CD player is not in the positive column. And the dealer says that's the way it is. XM aftermarket will not integrate with built-in NAV.
I have not seen the new Golf yet? I have spent a quite a bit of time riding around town in a friends 2009 Prius. Compared to my Sequoia it is noisy and rough riding. It is, what it is. A towny car that gets great mileage in town. I recommended it to this guy as his trips were all 3-4 miles on flat land. He is now moved to Hawaii and took it with him. Works great on Maui where the speed limit is max 55. My driving is not conducive to owning a Prius. Just my trip home from Costco would probably drop the mileage into the low 30s. Our stretch of Interstate 8 is steep and posted 70 MPH. With traffic moving 75+. You get behind a slow truck going 35 MPH it takes some beans to go from 35 to 75 MPH in a short space. The Passat TDI which had less HP than the current Jetta TDI had what it took in those driving conditions. 4 Bangers like the Civic struggle up that long grade at 75 MPH.
When did you get the Rabbit? You had an Elantra you liked very much also. After owning the Passat TDI and test driving the VW gas cars, I had no desire to own one of them. The Torque is where driving pleasure is for me. Pulling up hills on a winding road in the San Diego back country is fun driving for me. I really don't need another vehicle. I would buy the Golf TDI for all our running around and pleasure drives. I still will want a large vehicle for going on road trips more than 100 miles.
We are going on a 5000 mile round the USA trip the end of September and I dread the gas bill for that Sequoia. Not enough to go buy a diesel SUV that I may not really like. We are going to visit my farm in Long Prairie, MN. I planted much of it in blue spruce trees in 1980 and have not been back there since 1983. I would imagine it is a forest by now. Doing my share to suck up the CO2 put out by my Sequoia.
#76 of 791 Re: Pricing [gagrice]
Aug 23, 2009 (4:09 am)
Unless it was installed and included at the time of sale I would not believe them for a minute.
The "upper" levels of Prius (not sure about the II) are not just XM capable, they have the tuner and antena built in with a free 3 month subscription to XM. That was my concern as my 07 TCH said "capable" as well but you had to buy the tuner. Toyota should have changed the wording in 2010 since it obviously means something different now. You have XM when you drive off the lot
#77 of 791 Re: Pricing [gagrice]
Aug 23, 2009 (4:13 am)
My driving is not conducive to owning a Prius. Just my trip home from Costco would probably drop the mileage into the low 30s. Our stretch of Interstate 8 is steep and posted 70 MPH.
A Prius probably is not the vehicle of choice for someone who's route is all uphill. However, for those that get to turn around and coast downhill occasionally, it works pretty well. I can't imagine getting less than 44 mpg though, not the low 30's.
#78 of 791 Re: Pricing [wvgasguy]
Aug 23, 2009 (4:57 am)
No doubt the Prius would get decent mileage on the down hill run to Costco. XM looks to be a dealer installed option on the 2010 Prius according to the Toyota website. I can imagine what they would charge. Of course I would never be able to get past the goofy look of the Prius and the blind spots. I will leave the hybrids to those that like them. Give me a solid diesel vehicle or an EV if they ever become feasible or practical.
#79 of 791 Re: Pricing [backy]
Aug 23, 2009 (5:28 am)
Just looking at the inventory for one of the largest Toyota dealers in San Diego. They have 16 Prius in stock. Nothing lower than a III model with price at $27,550. The V series are just under $33k. Looks like plenty of choices for the last two days of the clunker program. Though I don't see those prices being a bargain.
By contrast there is only one Jetta TDI in stock out of the 8 VW dealers in San Diego. Looks like C4C worked for the VW dealers. The 2010 models do not seem to be in stock yet. I expect the Golf TDI to be in short supply even with the economy. The Sportwagen TDI has been out over a year and I have yet to see one on a dealers lot. Always sold when they arrive. You want a VW gasser and the lot is full of them.
#80 of 791 Re: Pricing [gagrice]
Aug 23, 2009 (6:56 am)
Keep in mind the Prius has been redesigned for 2010--just like the Golf has been. So picking on the 2004-9 Prius (like picking on a 2007 Toyota truck) is not really pertinent. The Gen 3 Prius has more power and a tweaked suspension. So before trashing it for lack of power, handling, comfort, and also too much noise, it might be a good idea to drive it.
I got the 2007 Rabbit in April after my 2005 Jetta was totaled by a no-brain running a red light. I only had the Jetta for 3 months (replaced a 328Ci) but really liked it, it was like new and had six years of warranty on it. But the Rabbit is an even better car in almost every respect (Jetta had a bit smoother ride). It is plenty torquey for a relatively small gas engine, and gives me over 35 mpg on the highway (upper 20s in town). If I drove more highway miles I would probably consider the TDI in a few years when we retire our last minivan, but I have that nagging concern over our clever state government mandating the biodiesel without considering the implications for MN weather. And the driving pattern that seems to favor a hybrid.
#81 of 791 Re: Pricing [gagrice]
Aug 23, 2009 (7:01 am)
You can't just look at cars on the lot, but need to look at sales volume too. 16 Priuses might be a very short supply, depending on how many are sold in a month across all the dealerships. Also note how the lower-priced IIs are gone--those would be the most popular with cost-conscious C4C buyers looking for the maximum $4500 payout. Maybe there is only one Jetta TDI because they were in short supply to begin with, with the 2010s coming.
I don't think the upper-trim Priuses are a great bargain. I could buy quite a car for $28-33k. I think the Prius II is very competitively priced, given it has mid-sized interior room and gets better FE than any mid-sized sedan. It has more than enough gizmos for me. I can always stick our TomTom on the dash if I want nav.
#82 of 791 Re: Pricing [backy]
Aug 23, 2009 (7:11 am)
Don't you also have the high ethanol RUG in MN. That is a mileage killer for my gas vehicles. As far as biodiesel and cold. Even D2 will gel at about 20 below. All we ever ran in the Arctic was number one diesel. Same as JetA or kerosene. I imagine they mix D1 in the winter to keep down the gelling. Number one diesel also cuts mileage a bit.
Seems like nothing is perfect. Glad you are enjoying the Rabbit. Maybe when you retire you will find a warmer climate and biodiesel will not be an issue. B100 is very popular on Maui. All the celebs with diesel VWs and MBs run it exclusively. My first choice biodiesel as it is renewable. On Maui it eliminated the waste cooking oil and grease being dumped into the landfill. A win win that more places should try.
I may have to test drive the Prius if they give me a chance to run it over my usual route home. Most dealers in San Diego like to go on very short test drives. A quick swing onto the freeway and off at the next ramp and back around to the dealership. None have offered to let me take one out without the salesman. Even the Toyota dealer when he knew I was getting my Sequoia serviced. When I lived in AZ they would just hand you the keys after getting a look at your DL.